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A number posting here will have had a listen. I suspect even the most lofty here pretending that they haven't have.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
A number posting here will have had a listen. I suspect even the most lofty here pretending that they haven't have.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I've listened to the first 20 minutes of that John Molyneux one. It's on "pause" in another tab.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Jesus those 2 loyalist letters to the ISO are awful, the second one is worse than Grant's. The FB four were expelled because they were clearly organising a faction! Eh yeah that's kind of the point of being in a faction. And NG's argument that the factions jumped the 3 month gun by a week is ....well not even an argument. There must be better defenders of the line out there.
Mind you Seymour does twist himself in knots discussing the 'you earn your living from the internet' jibe. It's obviously an argument gaining traction, understandably, among the membership.
Maybe the antipathy to having the debate online at all explains why the rare foray into defending the cc online is so weak. Certainly feels like the best people are just staying quiet (although presumably not in their branches where it matters).
Mind you Seymour does twist himself in knots discussing the 'you earn your living from the internet' jibe. It's obviously an argument gaining traction, understandably, among the membership.
Maybe the antipathy to having the debate online at all explains why the rare foray into defending the cc online is so weak. Certainly feels like the best people are just staying quiet (although presumably not in their branches where it matters).
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
No just stop telling anyone about them.
Almost to rub the weekly workers face in it, socialist unity has the text of mark bergfelds resignation letter.
Please note it says
FOR SWP MEMBERS ONLY. DO NOT DISTRIBUTE OUTSIDE THE PARTY. DO NOT PUBLISH ONLINE.
So do not read
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I clicked onto one of these a few months back, even if it promised the secret to eternal life AND an end to human servitude I would not click again.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
What did you make of it?
kavenism
Progressive misanthrope
Pomposity is the word. I had a flick through a copy of unhitched last night. I’ve never seen prose which has been so self-consciously touched up with a thesaurus as his; that response to Grant is another case in point.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Where did you hear this?
In a pub.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
How reliable a source ?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
from what?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
A normally reliable and informed source whose board name i cannot spell (and who has't been here for years anyway) says an open faction has now been declared and info sent to the CC this morning.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The DC maybe? Can't see it myself as that would be a big card for him to pull out from the bottom of the house and i don't think that is his game at all (god, what a terrible sentence).
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
If that were true then there would have to be some serious spinning to be done in order to make him 'not one of us'. However I don't believe it for a minute.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
.butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I heard he downloaded Michel Thomas' guide to learning Greek.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Apparently this involves a lot of previously "soft" oppositionists too.
Interesting, presumably that means they can all be expelled now.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
If they listed their whole support on the declaration, it certainly makes the massive purge option simpler for the CC.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I wonder will the faction publicise its own statement or will Socialist Unity do it first?
Is this a deliberate move to get expelled now, so they can set up a rival organisation with some legitmacy - or is it a show of strength to scare the CC off the idea of expelling them?
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
This makes a split pretty much inevitable really doesn't it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
A lot depends on the numbers really - but annoyingly, good tactical arguments can be made either way. If they have barley scraped the required 30 they can easily be chopped off right now, but equally they can be allowed to stay, utterly marginalised and punished and left hanging on the barbed wire for all potential future dissenters to see. If they are up around or over the 160 who signed the letter the NC refused to read to the delegates then they are both maybe too large to chuck out in one go but also too large to be allowed to stay. In the latter case i think the CC's instinct will be to cut out the gangrene in order to achieve #1 priority - the CC's survival - either one big go or a couple of swift chops, so those defending the first lot of expelees are too busy fighting for the first lot to fight the ax at their own neck.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
A split was pretty much inevitable from the moment they expelled the facebook four before the conference. Possibly earlier.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Before this came out I'd got the impression from a few things I'd heard that the CC's strategy was probably to decapitate the opposition by removing ringleaders and more prominent hard oppositionists in the hopes that the rest would either fall into line or slowly and quietly drift away rather than all leave together and form another group claiming to be the true heirs of Cliff. I wonder if this is an attempt to sort of solidify the opposition to make that more difficult, so that the only options for the CC are getting rid of the lot or allowing them all to remain inside to 'fight for the soul of the party'.
I'm open to the possibility than I'm completely misreading things and talking bollocks though.
I'm open to the possibility than I'm completely misreading things and talking bollocks though.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I think a mass exodus was always inevitable. But at one point it looked to me like it might be difficult or impossible for those leaving to set up a rival group. I think declaring this faction makes that less likely - I think those leading the faction will see it as the first step towards setting up a new group.
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