Santiagotalk
New Member
This is not correct.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
This is not correct.
Santiagotalk
New Member
This is not correct.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
how do you know?
Santiagotalk
New Member
Correct.
Santiagotalk
New Member
No Pat Stack has not resigned.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Owen 'i like houses and churches' Hatherley has his say.
A tale of rape claims, abuses of power and the Socialist Workers party
(not sure using the renegade steadman Jones will do him any favours)
A tale of rape claims, abuses of power and the Socialist Workers party
(not sure using the renegade steadman Jones will do him any favours)
Santiagotalk
New Member
You should read the SWP Constitution. It is constitutional.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The coming expulsions or the formation of a faction outside of the pre-conference discussion period?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Is it true that all misunderstood Lenin ever wanted was a large and democratic SPD.
Is the implication the SPD was ever democratic?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
like the ussr
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
apparently in Manchester taxi drivers are being used to drive the faction statement around members to get them to sign
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
only the scouse drivers who performed sterling work for degsy in the 80s
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
His parents were millies, iirc.
Wasn't that Owen Jones?
I thought it was Mark Owen, his dad was one of the Liverpool councillors
ETA: I know he's a manc but that's because they moved there after
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
and give them herpes.
only if they don't sign
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The argument in a nutshell is that the leninism, the bolshevism that all western trot groups adopted was the post-1917 Leninism, that due to the situation necessarily had to develop centralising authoritarian structures in order to survive etc and that in the period before this the RSDLP was an a more democratic body that allowed internal argument and dissent, was characterised by open election and recall etc - all true, the pre-1917 bit i mean.
Critics then pointed to What is To be Done from 1902 to say that later authoritarianism was there all along - Lih's very influential book attempted to take an axe that idea and suggests that WITBD was itself an example of that open debate that bolshevism was centred on. There's been a debate over the last what decade or so over this - hence all this current stuff about real leninism (and regroupment this time with no mistakes!) The gaping hole of course, is what use is an open democratic body before the revolution if once the situation it says must and will come it becomes post-1917 leninism due to the demands of the situation? They can never square that circle, because they have to defend the actions of the post revolution bolsheviks up to 1928.
Don't really think there's any idealisation of the SDP behemoth as such just more a comparison with the modern day bolsheviks forms of organisation - i think it's based more on naivety as to how the SDP and its leaders actually worked than argument for an SDP type party.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
Oh right. I think I read somewhere that Owen Jones's parents were Militant full-timers in Sheffield.
So all kids who have the name Owen have parents who were Millies? I wish I got the memo.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
I actually knew a Welshman in Oxford who's name was Owen and whose parents were in the Militant.Oh right. I think I read somewhere that Owen Jones's parents were Militant full-timers in Sheffield.
So all kids who have the name Owen have parents who were Millies? I wish I got the memo.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
THE militant? the yankee swappies?
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
The Militant tendency of the Labour Party. AKA The Militant.
a very reliable source - rank and file member. The member told me whilst drunk at the pub.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Anyone can make Lenin into anything they want - that's the problem with arguing figures not wider collections of people and movements. The various hues within Maoists - 30s era and 50s era, liberal Western Marcusians, Titoists, Guevarists - urban and peasant-focused, 68ers, Hoxhaists, Ceaucescuists, Eurocommunists - hard (PCI) and soft (KPO), Trotksyists - orthodox, entrist and reform, Iranian two-stagers, the Marxist Leninists, national liberationists they all spin/see a different Lenin.
Perhaps 2 things overlooked.
1. How little the RSDLP was able to influence/dominate etc "the masses" between WISTBD and the outbreak of 1914. Inspite of 1905 and the gains afterwards- Lena gold miners RSDLP not there, black earth peasant disturbances RSDLP not there, Latvian forest war RSDLP not there.
2. How the SDP betrayal of 1914 was well on the cards from the structures of the party from the late nineteenth century onwards.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You think that because you have not yet attained the necessary level of revolutionary consciousness, comrade.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He hasn't attempted to estimate the number of working comrades in the SWP, therefore underestimating the number would be impossible, and your "claim" is merely a poorly-executed rhetorical device on your part, aimed at making you look knowledgeable, but successful only in doing the opposite.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
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