SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Hocus Eye.]

It looks worse (for the SWP) as time passes. I doubt if it will be a straightforward split, more like a drift away of members and a downturn in activity as its resources dwindle. There is no hint of the various oppositions proposing an alternative party that I can see.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The NC meeting is tomorrow, I believe. Depending on how aggressively the CC play it, stuff could start leaking immediately or it could take until early next week.

Hocus Eye: they can't hint at a new party in advance. That would be tactical suicide.

On another note, Tom Walker has another post up, which goes a little further in questioning SWP orthodoxy than most other oppositionist pieces.

 

[TremulousTetra]

It looks worse - for the SWP (as time passes). I doubt if it will be a straightforward split, more like a drift away of members and a downturn in activity as its resources dwindle. There is no hint of the various oppositions proposing an alternative party that I can see.

so most people believe that is a good thing???

 

[TremulousTetra]

The NC meeting is tomorrow, I believe. Depending on how aggressively the CC play it, stuff could start leaking immediately or it could take until early next week.

Hocus Eye: they can't hint at a new party in advance. That would be tactical suicide.

On another note, Tom Walker has another post up, which goes a little further in questioning SWP orthodoxy than most other oppositionist pieces.

no link?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Has somebody already explained in this thread, why the leadership would be so desperate to keep hold of this guy in the leadership, desperate enough to "cover something up", when they have jettisoned so many IE John Rees, German, Smith et cetera?

 

[emanymton]

no link?

Here.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I would certainly stop my criticisms of the SWP if they had better more consistent leninists at the top table. I think the class would give more of a shit too. And look at you going ooh paris is working class - what does that tell you? That you need to point that out? What situation have you put up with enough to point out that he's working class?

who is this directed to? What would constitute a more consistent Leninist? And what are the last three questions going on about?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I see you're still acting instinctively. Is living in denial so strong in your leninist dna?

You know what fella, you really have nothing to offer. I don't mind you but you are a minor annoyance.

I'm being polite cause I'm just back from the Millenium Stadium on a high.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

It looks worse - for the SWP (as time passes). I doubt if it will be a straightforward split, more like a drift away of members and a downturn in activity as its resources dwindle. There is no hint of the various oppositions proposing an alternative party that I can see.

Really? Some of us are on the point of rejoining. Sometimes it takes a shit split to convince the meanderers to do the decent thing.

 

[two sheds]

rejoining

Rejoining the SWP?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Seriously doesn't stop the antibiotics working? Only I got a bottle of single malt and a crate of Guinness in my Christmas box and I'm thinking it might be more effective as a painkiller than the ibuprofen I've been taking.

what I got told was, antibiotics were first introduced to deal with the clap. They knew that you were more likely to spread the clap, if you were drunk, so they encouraged the belief that the antibiotics didn't work if you drank, to stop drunken sex. It is true that only the antibiotics that say "not to be taken with alcohol" are the ones you shouldn't take with alcohol.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Most of the people in far left groups are lefty trainspotters, obsessed with the tiny and ever shrinking world of the far left. And each group, whether the SWP, SP or whoever else gloat at any problems that other groups have while seemingly oblivious to the fact that they are little different from each other.

and yet almost the entire left is united in saying, the SWP ignores the rest of the left, and fails to engage with it. That the SWP almost entirely concentrate on people to the right of the revolutionary left.
And while the SWP quite rightly celebrated the demise of the Soviet Union, and the politics of such as the CPGB, as a caveat it did warn that the great loss activists organised by the Communist parties, would be a LOSS to the labour movement, anti-fascism, et cetera.


And whilst I am sure money on here will celebrate the death of the SWP, I fear it will be part of that continuing trend, of a smaller and smaller revolutionary left in the UK. :-(

 

[Nigel Irritable]

http://www.socialistunity.com/socialist-workers-party-swp-national-committee-debates-the-crisis/

Newman has put up the motions to be discussed at the NC meeting tomorrow. Grim stuff mostly.

 

[mk12]

We reaffirm the right of the Central Committee to impose disciplinary measures for violation of our democratic constitution.

Uh oh.

 

[mk12]

http://www.socialistunity.com/socialist-workers-party-swp-national-committee-debates-the-crisis/

Newman has put up the motions to be discussed at the NC meeting tomorrow. Grim stuff mostly.

Only one motion not supportive of the CC. This will be interesting!

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Various loyalist motions calling for purges (or "upholding the right of the Central Committee to impose disciplinary measures...").

A truly dismal, in the best traditions of the SWP, document in from Sean Vernell and Mark Campbell, puts the central blame on the failure of members to implement the perspective and then goes on to a truly incoherent account of the influence of "autonomism" on students. It does manage to admit a mistake though: The Education Action Network comes in for a kicking, which is I would guess a dig at recent CC minority people.

The CC statement suggests that some changes may need to be made to the DC's procedures - and then explains that they mean changes to preserve its confidentiality and limit reports to conference.

Seymour gets attacked by name in two motions. One of which wants the CC to distribute Molyneux's self-immolation.

No compromise motions and no concessions in the loyalist ones.

 

[emanymton]

This has created difficulties for any future DC hearing. Therefore it is in this light that the NC thinks it sensible to consider these issues, in particular:

i) how the future confidentiality of DC proceedings can be safeguarded​

ii) how future findings of the DC should be reported to the party​

Meaning, next time we won't even bother to tell the members, as they obviously can't be trusted.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Only one motion not supportive of the CC. This will be interesting!

It's going to be carnage next week.

 

[mk12]

It's going to be carnage next week.

Seymour will be out of the Party for sure. How many others?

 

[mk12]

Meaning, next time we won't even bother to tell the members, as they obviously can't be trusted.

Strip search of delegates? Ban mobile phones? X-ray machines on entrance?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Seymour will be out of the Party for sure. How many others?

They'll try to start small, I'd guess, and try to decapitate the opposition. But maybe not: The motions seem to suggest a siege mentality, so they might go "shock and awe".

 

[emanymton]

Seymour will be out of the Party for sure. How many others?

Not as many as some think I suspect

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Not as many as some think I suspect

There will be expulsions, there will be who go with them, there will be who don't but who form an ongoing sullen minority inside, setting up further rows and splits. How many in each category we can't be sure, but overall we are talking about a sizeable percentage of the SWP.

Meanwhile, these motions are completely tone deaf. Nobody outside the SWP is going to be remotely supportive or convinced.

 

[mk12]

Meanwhile, these motions are completely tone deaf. Nobody outside the SWP is going to be remotely supportive or convinced.

I can think of one person outside the Party who will be supportive and convinced.

 

[emanymton]

There will be expulsions, there will be who go with them, there will be who don't but who form an ongoing sullen minority inside, setting up further rows and splits. How many in each category we can't be sure, but overall we are talking about a sizeable percentage of the SWP.

Meanwhile, these motions are completely tone deaf. Nobody outside the SWP is going to be remotely supportive or convinced.

I think a lot will settle into the Sullen minority category, simply because most will feel that while the SWP is shit it is the best available option. What impact it will have on any future rows is impossible to tell. My prediction is that between expulsions and resignations this will cost them around 100 members in the next couple of month. unless the CC goes on a mad purge which is quite possible.

Of course I could be completely and utterly wrong.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I think a lot will settle into the Sullen minority category, simply because most will feel that while the SWP is shit it is the best available option. What impact it will have on any future rows is impossible to tell. My prediction is that between expulsions and resignations this will cost them around 100 members in the next couple of month. unless the CC goes on a mad purge which is quite possible.

Of course I could be completely and utterly wrong.

I think it will be more than that between expulsions, resignations to follow the expelled and drop outs due to demoralisation. In particular, SWSS is going to be gutted.

But the real damage is going to be that they will be stumbling on demoralised, isolated and with a sullen and resentful minority still on board. Remember the Counterfire split, which was less significant than this, dragged on through a couple of years of mini splits. Back in the 70s, when a minority got expelled, it got expelled quickly and thoroughly, but more recently things have been a lot messier.

Still, there are too many variables to be certain about how this will go.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

And now Nick Cohen has a predictably gloating column. I'm actually surprised it took him this long.

 

[emanymton]

I think it will be more than that between expulsions, resignations to follow the expelled and drop outs due to demoralisation. In particular, SWSS is going to be gutted.

But the real damage is going to be that they will be stumbling on demoralised, isolated and with a sullen and resentful minority still on board. Remember the Counterfire split, which was less significant than this, dragged on through a couple of years of mini splits. Back in the 70s, when a minority got expelled, it got expelled quickly and thoroughly, but more recently things have been a lot messier.

Still, there are too many variables to be certain about how this will go.

Well I can't argue with the last point. I also agree that the real damage is likely to be long term, I think they will appear to weather the current storm quite well, but where they will be in 10 years I have no idea. For one thing this could really hit their ability to recruit.

 

[emanymton]

And now Nick Cohen has a predictably gloating column. I'm actually surprised it took him this long.

He's probably only just sobered up.

 

[barney_pig]

The loss of the current swss cadre might be the least of their worries, I can't see many su's letting the rape party onto campus in future, nor many broad lefts willing to embrace a cult so openly contemptuous of even the facade of democracy.
Let this sad broken husk die, and let the scum who defend it die with it.