SWP expulsions and squabbles

[belboid]

I know that we are not supposed to be quoting or answering the fool above, but " persecution of the claimant" is probably the most stupid post of the thread and definitely the lowest point of the loyalist defence on here. Worse even that bolshie's demonstration that you can take the hack out of the party...

It's just the words of a moron who never understood the politics of the organisation he pretends not to be a supporter of.

 

[articul8]

If you have ‘forty years of experience’ of Leninism, and your organisation is about the same size now as it was when you started, you’re doing it wrong.

http://rethinkingtheleft.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[barney_pig]

I know that we are not supposed to be quoting or answering the fool above, but " persecution of the claimant" is probably the most stupid post of the thread and definitely the lowest point of the loyalist defence on here. Worse even that bolshie's demonstration that you can take the hack out of the party...

The more they write, the more I think king street had the right idea; "treat (some) Trotskyites as you would a fascist"

 

[belboid]

And treat some ex-trots like you would a very small, very stupid, child.

 

[Pickman's model]

You know what fella, you really have nothing to offer. I don't mind you but you are a minor annoyance.

I'm being polite cause I'm just back from the Millenium Stadium on a high.

I'll take that as a 'yes' then

 

[mk12]

If so that is fascinating as there has been a huge amount of time spent by various groups, grouplets and scenes saying how bad they all are and how they misread this and that for so little gain.

Actually I think its all back to labour.

Yes, definitely. The negative view of other leftist groups held by SWP members won't suddenly leave them when they leave/are expelled. The AWL and CPGB were particularly hated by members when I was in the Party, but the SP might pick up a few strays.

 

[articul8]

How many people are on the NC? Seymour says he's isn't - and isn't entitled to be an observer either. Suggests the 'debate' will be more than a little one-sided?

 

[butchersapron]

50

 

[articul8]

suggests critics on the NC will be v small in number - so discussion will probably be about the timing and scale of expulsions not their desirability

 

[laptop]

Interesting that Beyond the Fragments (which is being republished with new intros later this year btw) is singled out for criticism - together with the perspective of "broad, pluralist" left realignment. Ahead of its time...

Next, Big Flame II? The Return of Big Flame?? Blowback???

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting that Beyond the Fragments (which is being republished with new intros later this year btw) is singled out for criticism - together with the perspective of "broad, pluralist" left realignment. Ahead of its time...

Reality=creeping into the labour party. Failed miserably then - and in better conditions than today. I saw her ladyship was talking at the Compass (i agree with Nick) AGM yesterday, rather sums it all up doesn't it?

 

[audiotech]

Trust me, the individual moving motion two you don't want to mess with.

Edit: I'm reading that motion two was passed. Worked then.

 

[articul8]

Reality=creeping into the labour party. Failed miserably then - and in better conditions than today. I saw her ladyship was talking at the Compass (i agree with Nick) AGM yesterday, rather sums it all up doesn't it?

I told her was wasting her time there. But she thinks their audience can be won to something better

 

[manny-p]

I told her was wasting her time there. But she thinks their audience can be won to something better

says the man who supports a party that is responsible for millions of dead in Iraq.

 

[articul8]

Here we fucking go...huge numbers of Lab supporters opposed it. Lab also supported Falklands war, for eg, but not a reason to leave rather than fight

 

[SLK]

Actually, forget that - it's a useless piece of information from SU.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

How many people are on the NC? Seymour says he's isn't - and isn't entitled to be an observer either. Suggests the 'debate' will be more than a little one-sided?

No it suggests he is too self important to do anyting as menial as seek election to a party body. Far better to bleat sweet nothings from your blog and not have to answer to anybody.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Completely irrelevant but Bambery getting quite excited on fb about the Italy result today.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

The moderate opposition are sounding gloomy. All very oblique but references to the Titanic don't sound like they're happy.

 

[The39thStep]

Completely irrelevant but Bambery getting quite excited on fb about the Italy result today.

Balotteli's debut?

 

[emanymton]

suggests critics on the NC will be v small in number - so discussion will probably be about the timing and scale of expulsions not their desirability

According to a post on SU the opposition got around 9 votes as the NC, better than I would have expected.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Yes, more than they themselves or the CC expected either. Which means that the CC, despite getting the purge motions passed are still in a delicate position. Substantial opposition amongst even this lot indicates that they haven't yet managed to marginalise the hard opposition from the vacillators.

 

[Nigel]

Again, I don't want to state, because we can't know, those reasons are why W chose not to forget the disputes committee and make a sexual harassment/rape complaint to the police at 2008 or 2010 or whenever.

It's very unlikely that Comrade W would get any success going through CPS & criminal courts on this accusation, however going through the civil courts she could have had a better chance of getting a succesful outcome and minimising the involvement of the police and other apparatus of the establishment & the British Capitalist State.

Thinking the Quakers (as most of the left seem to use their premises at for their events) might have been the more objective arbitrating council to use.( although in my opinion they should have told comrade W to make a complaint with the police).

 

[Nigel]

The acid test will be Steve Hedley.

On Facebook he sort of defended(maybe that's a bit overt) AWL attacks on SWP linking sexual assault/rape allegations with anti semitism.
In Oxford relations between TUSC supporters & SWP seem to be relatively ok.

 

[sihhi]

The International Bolshevik Tendency reveal their conclusions.

Warning: 99% of posters on this thread might well be "reformists, cranks, confusionists and trolls"

With the SWP leadership strongly discouraging discussion on the findings of their disputes committee regarding the rape allegation, and bureaucratically declaring ‘the case is closed’, dissidents have taken the discussion outside the party. Some observers welcome this as being a good thing in principle. In this case it seems to be necessary, but in a healthy revolutionary organisation internal debate is the most effective way to arrive at correct decisions regarding the inevitable problems that arise in political life. To open such discussions to the public is to invite those who are not obligated to carry out the decisions reached (as well as reformists, cranks, confusionists and trolls) to gum up the works. This is not, as anti-Leninists contend, a means of shutting down programmatic debate, but rather raising the level of debate inside and outside the revolutionary organisation.

What's the conclusion I can hear everyone eager to know what the IBT think - well it is not just Lenin, it is Lenin and Trotsky. That is the answer for those leaving.

The ‘IS tradition’ must be politically rejected in its entirety. An authentically Marxist vanguard can only be built on the revolutionary tradition of the Bolshevik Party under Lenin and Trotsky – only this sort of party can actually solve the problems of the oppressed and exploited.

http://www.bolshevik.org/statements/ibt_20130203_swp_crisis.html

 

[frogwoman]

only this sort of party can actually solve the problems of the oppressed and exploited.

How's that going for them?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I thought that you were a member of the SWP until you said you were a member of the LP nowadays "just an ex-member giving some insight but no partisanship". But your postings were all about the party line (as I understand it) dressed up in polite language. When you responded to me questioning the overall attitude of "don't look at this particular rape accusation - look at that one over there" with the put down "god bless" I fucking knew there was more to what you were posting than that of an onlooker.

I suppose a schism of this sort will make people consider their positions. Leave the party, rejoin the party, carry on as a disgruntled wedge, or carry on regardless.

But you're a dishonest bastard. Don't fucking come it now with "some of us are on the point of rejoining". I doubt you ever left.

"Do the decent thing".

Fuck's sake.

I find it quite interesting how there are quite a few "ex Swappies" with fairly up-to-date knowledge of what's going on in the party, as well as a continuing commitment to the SWP, who happily sow pro-Swappite propaganda and put-downs of people who disagree with the Swappite line.

Of course, that doesn't NECESSARILY mean that they're members-in-good-standing of the SWP. It could mean that they're so politically-naive that they're happy to shill for any old bunch of cunts.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The acid test will be Steve Hedley.

Isn't he a weatherman, or was that John Kettley?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I agree. There's a reason the prof didnt mention names inside the party in his piece.

There are many possible reasons that he didn't. Which is your contention?

 

[butchersapron]

Isn't he a weatherman, or was that John Kettley?

Did he ever apologise for his disgraceful outburst:

Dig it! First they killed those pigs and then they put a fork in pig Tate's belly. Wild! Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson!