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SWP expulsions and squabbles

chilango said:
N

Nah.

Apart from your good selves there won't be any left wing parties left to dscuss it.
This pretty much marks the end of the Trot tradition in the UK. Be interesting to see where the SP take things freed from the shackles of competing with rival Trot franchises.
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You think so? what makes you say that?
 
articul8 said:
The Prof is an unbearably pretentious smug c*nt
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I don't think he is at all, just thoughtful and confident in himself.
chilango said:
N

Nah.

Apart from your good selves there won't be any left wing parties left to dscuss it.
This pretty much marks the end of the Trot tradition in the UK. Be interesting to see where the SP take things freed from the shackles of competing with rival Trot franchises.
Click to expand...

I don't think it "marks the end" of anything really. The SWP is seriously damaged, yes, but they will carry on with their project with reduced membership. They have advertised this year's Marxism on their website. It will be interesting to see how big it is this year. Last year's was very big and they even deliberately downplayed it according to what I have read.
 
There were/are two groups of people who use the term "Trots" as derogatory. That is the Stalinists and the Anarchists, both for well known historical reasons. Among the SWP members I have known, while they support Trotsky and read his works, they mostly identify as Leninists.
 
Hocus Eye. said:
There were/are two groups of people who use the term "Trots" as derogatory. That is the Stalinists and the Anarchists, both for well known historical reasons. Among the SWP members I have known, while they support Trotsky and read his works, they mostly identify as Leninists.
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you forgot the Labour right/NOLS crowd who see anyone to the left of Peter Hain as "the trots"
 
articul8 said:
National Organisation of Labour Students (as was) that fought the (Trotskyist dominated) LPYS
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What has this got to do this thread on the SWP? Go back and talk to your parliamentary party buddies about something else. You are an unwanted passenger here.
 
frogwoman said:
You think so? what makes you say that?
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The Trots in the UK had largely monopolised visible, organised, "branded" lefty politics for several generations. Unlike other coutries where the CP, Maoists, Autonomists and Anarchists etc. swamped the Trots to the periphery/historcal footnote, for some reason here they were the first (and usually last) port of call for people wanting to get involved in a lefty group. Since WW2 the scene was dominated by the dynastic tendencies ( plus the upstsrt IMG) in their various incarnations. But they're all gone now

WRP - all gone.

IMG - all gone.

SWP - going, going , gone.

None og the little grouplets left have anything like the visibilty or influencr their parent orgs had. And memberships can be couted in their dozens.

The SWP ten years ago wrre "big". They ain't now. And a WRP style splintering will finish them as a meaningful force. They simply don't have the numbers to survive it.

Will the SP move on from the Trot brand? I'd guess so. But it's up to youse, no?
 
I'd guess in the thousands. They claimed 10k in the 90s. They eon't have had that many, but it essn't too stupid an exaggeration. They'd have held rekatvely steady in the post Seattle years and the started to really decline around the time f the Respect debacle. Id be surprised if they had much more than a thousand real members left.
 
Ten - fifteen years ago even remote suburbs of London and small towns had plenty of SWP flyposters and Saturday paper sellers.
 
frogwoman said:
but can they seriously go ahead of it in the middle of a massive split over a botched rape case? surely anyone interested in joining the SWP is going to find out about this rape case business after the most rudimentary bit of research? I bet it will be a damp squib and nobody will turn up except for "delta" and the sparts
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Why wait for MArxism to find out?

So any volunteers to go along to the one of the Marxism and Feminism meetings and give a report back?
 
Hocus Eye. said:
I don't think he is at all, just thoughtful and confident in himself.


I don't think it "marks the end" of anything really. The SWP is seriously damaged, yes, but they will carry on with their project with reduced membership. They have advertised this year's Marxism on their website. It will be interesting to see how big it is this year. Last year's was very big and they even deliberately downplayed it according to what I have read.
Click to expand...
I keep changing my mind over just how damaging to the SWP this is likely to be? :D

At the moment I agree with you it will lost a lot of members including a few of the bigger names, but it will pretty much just keep plodding on as it has for years.
 
belboid said:
both Sheffield branches having The Politics of Feminism as their branch meeting mext week. Almost tempting....but not quite.
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The branch meetings are based on themes provided on a list by the cc, I expect that title is at the head of the list. They will want to cauterize the wound asap.
 
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