SWP expulsions and squabbles

[The39thStep]

our local swss is doing a meeting on the revolutionary teachings of leon trotsky, according to a load of flyposters i saw this morning. one not to miss.

Is there a bar, if so I might go with you.

 

[butchersapron]

That sort of bollocks was spouted on here too.

Very telling thread. Worth a read still.

 

[cesare]

Very telling thread. Worth a read still.

63 pages

 

[butchersapron]

63 pages

First 20 pages should give you the flavour

Very telling in that those who had the right instincts were the SP and the anarchists - the ones it's been suggested place individual rather than class struggle at the centre of their analysis - and the ones who didn't were the SWP and the harder trots, the ones constantly going on about placing collective class struggle at the centre (unlike those creeping feminists, autonomists anarchists other marxists who are too tied up in union bureaucracy to see the real living class movement).

edit: on 2nd thoughts, i think i maybe should have left this alone

 

[DotCommunist]

teuchter in early on the loathesome prick

 

[cesare]

First 20 pages should give you the flavour

I'll add it to my list

Edit: as it happens I had read at least the first 20 pages anyway, but it was useful rereading it from the pov of looking at the hard trot position, ta

 

[cesare]

I also have to listen to that radio interview and read about the origins of the slate system. I'm falling behind

 

[butchersapron]

I also have to listen to that radio interview and read about the origins of the slate system. I'm falling behind

You'll never get your at least 75% class conscious badge at this rate.

 

[cesare]

You'll never get your at least 75% class conscious badge at this rate.

The problem with autodidacticism is that you never properly feel as if you've caught up.

 

[killer b]

Is there a bar, if so I might go with you.

Probably. If not we could just go to the pub.

We could just skip the trots and go straight to the pub tbf.

 

[frogwoman]

You'll never get your at least 75% class conscious badge at this rate.

its dubious whether you can even claim to have trade union consciousness if you don't remember when and why the slate system was first used, in fact you might not be working class at all

 

[cesare]

its dubious whether you can even claim to have trade union consciousness if you don't remember when and why the slate system was first used, in fact you might not be working class at all

I bet Laurie Penny learnt all about the slate system during her expensive education PFWC

 

[frogwoman]

I bet Laurie Penny learnt all about the slate system during her expensive education PFWC

you're not working class until you've heard of a man called trotsky

 

[cesare]

you're not working class until you've heard of a man called trotsky

You're not working class unless you know who the SWP are and why they speak for you

 

[frogwoman]

You're not working class unless you know who the SWP are and why they speak for you

the entire working class has an interest in what happens in the SWP, if you're not interested in the SWP you're not working class

 

[DotCommunist]

General debacle now!

 

[cesare]

the entire working class has an interest in what happens in the SWP, if you're not interested in the SWP you're not working class

There's an entire class of pretenders, getting away with it

 

[belboid]

the entire working class has an interest in what happens in the SWP, if you're not interested in the SWP you're not working class

comrade, comrade, you are failing to understand the dialectic in operation here. It is, of course, wholly right that the class has an interest in the SWP, but this is actually reflected, in day-to-day life, in the complete lack of interest the class shows in the party. Thus proving beyond any shadow of a doubt, that they are the only true party of the class.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

comrade, comrade, you are failing to understand the dialectic in operation here. It is, of course, wholly right that the class has an interest in the SWP, but this is actually reflected, in day-to-day life, in the complete lack of interest the class shows in the party. Thus proving beyond any shadow of a doubt, that they are the only true party of the class.

Quite right....apart from all the other revolutionary parties that the working class has a complete lack of interest in.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[TremulousTetra]

the entire working class has an interest in what happens in the SWP, if you're not interested in the SWP you're not working class

the entire working class has an interest in what happens in the LEFT :-(

 

[brogdale]

There's an entire class of pretenders, getting away with it

Conveniently....'tis their false consciousness that justifies the centralised control of the vanguard.

 

[cesare]

Millions of deluded working class people

 

[The39thStep]

comrade, comrade, you are failing to understand the dialectic in operation here. It is, of course, wholly right that the class has an interest in the SWP, but this is actually reflected, in day-to-day life, in the complete lack of interest the class shows in the party. Thus proving beyond any shadow of a doubt, that they are the only true party of the class.

echoes of Cockneyrebel and the dialectics of irrelevancy

 

[Nigel Irritable]

swss statements flooding in now. LSE SWSS too :-(

10 up so far and apparently still coming. I hear on Facebook that Kings and Oxford are the only large SWSS groups that haven't yet openly taken sides with the opposition.

This explains to some extent why the CC have been so weak in their response. It also would appear to rule out a "suuccessful" purge of Seymour and the rest of the "hard" opposition without losing the whole student cadre with them.

 

[frogwoman]

is there no possibility of people inside far-left groups having a false consciousness as well?

 

[brogdale]

Millions of deluded working class people

Historic bloc?

 

[DotCommunist]

There's an entire class of pretenders, getting away with it

 

[TremulousTetra]

is there no possibility of people inside far-left groups having a false consciousness as well?

that is precisely why the SW argued against prescribing what communism will be like, and agreed with the Marxist historians analysis "there is no such thing as working class culture." I think.

 

[frogwoman]

echoes of Cockneyrebel and the dialectics of irrelevancy

cockneyrebel was a bit before my time i think (before i started being interested in politics) but he has surely left a lasting impact on the massed ranks of the proletariat on here

 

[mk12]

Oh he is still very much among us.