SWP expulsions and squabbles

[frogwoman]

i've never been, is it even gonna go ahead this year? how can they go ahead with it "at a time like this"?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

i've never been, is it even gonna go ahead this year? how can they go ahead with it "at a time like this"?

You do know that not only there will 'never have been a better time to attend Marxism', but also the quality of presentation and debate from SWP comrades will be of an exceptionally high standard now that they have purged the centrists and been tested in the fire of bourgeois media attacks. It will be a place of strength to build on; a signal of great times ahead.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[frogwoman]

You do know that not only there will 'never have been a better time to attend Marxism', but also the quality of presentation and debate from SWP comrades will be of an exceptionally high standard now that they have purged the centrists and been tested in the fire of bourgeois media attacks. It will be a place of strength to build on; a signal of great times ahead.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

but can they seriously go ahead of it in the middle of a massive split over a botched rape case? surely anyone interested in joining the SWP is going to find out about this rape case business after the most rudimentary bit of research? I bet it will be a damp squib and nobody will turn up except for "delta" and the sparts

 

[butchersapron]

Judith Orr was speaking at UEA's Feminist society’s discussion forum on Marxism, Feminism, and Women’s Liberation:

After giving her intended talk on women’s liberation at the meeting, Orr opened up the floor to questions. Several audience members expressed concern at the SWP’s handling of such serious allegations.

It was questioned whether it was fair of the SWP to deal with the matter internally instead of going through the court system, and whether an internal body could effectively punish such a serious offence if the party member had been found guilty.

Orr maintained that the SWP were “more accountable than any other organisation,” being entirely intolerant of sexism, racism, homophobia, or any other hateful prejudices within their party.

The decision to go through the party’s disputes committee, which Orr noted was elected yearly to ensure fair representation, was entirely the decision of the victim and expressed sadness on behalf of both parties involved that the matter, which was meant to be “utterly confidential,” had come out against their wishes.

(Cheers to Paul for the spot)

 

[imposs1904]

i've never been, is it even gonna go ahead this year? how can they go ahead with it "at a time like this"?

Of course it's still on. They've already printed up the posters for the cadre:

 

[cesare]

Jesus wept.

Although, "rape victim" isn't a term I'm comfortable with. There are allegations of rape and it hasn't been investigated properly. Until it has been, I prefer "complainant".

 

[butchersapron]

Why didn't the swp get taken apart via #CreepingFeminism in the way the edl did over #CreepingSharia - missed opp there.

 

[mk12]

but can they seriously go ahead of it in the middle of a massive split over a botched rape case? surely anyone interested in joining the SWP is going to find out about this rape case business after the most rudimentary bit of research? I bet it will be a damp squib and nobody will turn up except for "delta" and the sparts

It will certainly be interesting if other groups have stalls outside as per usual.

 

[Random]

but can they seriously go ahead of it in the middle of a massive split over a botched rape case? surely anyone interested in joining the SWP is going to find out about this rape case business after the most rudimentary bit of research? I bet it will be a damp squib and nobody will turn up except for "delta" and the sparts

It will be interesting to see if any of their celeb fellow travellers star attractions avoid it this year. Butit seems to me that some lefty writers, etc see the SWP's conference as one of their biggest "radical" platforms

 

[frogwoman]

Judith Orr was speaking at UEA's Feminist society’s discussion forum on Marxism, Feminism, and Women’s Liberation:



(Cheers to Paul for the spot)

Orr maintained that the SWP were “more accountable than any other organisation,” being entirely intolerant of sexism, racism, homophobia, or any other hateful prejudices within their party.

this is bullshit how can anyone be "entirely free" of prejudice in a capitalist society.

 

[frogwoman]

It will be interesting to see if any of their celeb fellow travellers star attractions avoid it this year. Butit seems to me that some lefty writers, etc see the SWP's conference as one of their biggest "radical" platforms

I agree but that was before this rape case. Will the careerists of the commentariat touch it with a bargepole this year?

 

[frogwoman]

Maybe julian assange might put an appearance in lol

 

[DotCommunist]

live video conference from the embassy

 

[cesare]

this is bullshit how can anyone be "entirely free" of prejudice in a capitalist society.

How can anyone be "entirely free" of prejudice, full stop.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

this is bullshit how can anyone be "entirely free" of prejudice in a capitalist society.

"entirely intolerant" is different to "entirely free".

Any half decent employer or membership organisations would claim that they were "entirely intolerant" of sexism, racism and homophobia. "We've got policies!"

 

[butchersapron]

live video conference from the embassy

That's exactly what oxford student union are doing with him.

 

[frogwoman]

That's exactly what oxford student union are doing with him.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Maybe julian assange might put an appearance in lol

Talking of whom, marvellous they snared posh-knocking victim Old Harrovian Cumberbatch to play him. It's like 3D privilege chess.

 

[SpineyNorman]

but can they seriously go ahead of it in the middle of a massive split over a botched rape case? surely anyone interested in joining the SWP is going to find out about this rape case business after the most rudimentary bit of research? I bet it will be a damp squib and nobody will turn up except for "delta" and the sparts

It will definitely be interesting to see how they deal with non-members who try and raise this from the floor, especially in debates on womens liberation - and it will happen, unless they make it members only which is unlikely since it's seen as a recruitment tool.

 

[Plumdaff]

It will definitely be interesting to see how they deal with non-members who try and raise this from the floor, especially in debates on womens liberation - and it will happen, unless they make it members only which is unlikely since it's seen as a recruitment tool.

It would presumably be quite easy to fill contentious meetings and only select 'trusted' speakers from the floor. It's not as if that doesn't happen a lot and not just with the SWP.

 

[articul8]

It would presumably be quite easy to fill contentious meetings and only select 'trusted' speakers from the floor. It's not as if that doesn't happen a lot and not just with the SWP.

True, it but it would seem fairly extraordinary if they tried to stitch up a meeting on women that didn't see any mention made of the rape investigation. there would be uproar

 

[frogwoman]

maybe the International Bolshevik tendency will hold fringe meetings like they do at socailism with the title "is the socialist workers' party really socialist"

they'll probably have more members than the SWP by the end of this

 

[ViolentPanda]

oh christ

Fucking Christianist-Trotskyite!!!

 

[frogwoman]

One good thing about this though (possibly) is the idea that it might cause a re-evaluation of democratic centralism in left-wing parties. i reckon it probably will tbh, cant imagine there are many groups apart from sparts and shit who will ignorei it completely

 

[articul8]

Fucking Christianist-Trotskyite!!!

Deutscher:

'In his late years, Trotsky often compared Marxism with Calvinism: the determinism of the one and the doctrine of predestination of the other, far from weakening or 'denying' the human will, strengthened it. The conviction that his action is in harmony with a higher necessity inspires the Marxist as well as the Calvinist to the highest exertion and sacrifice'

Bad theology and bad politics

 

[ViolentPanda]

My interest was piqued, so I searched out a place called We Are Many dot org, and found a podcast by Martin Smith called John Coltane: Jazz, racism, and resistance http://wearemany.org/a/2010/06/john-coltane .

Now, I don't think it necessary to know anything about music theory to enjoy jazz, but I do think it necessary to understand a little about music theory before you start giving lectures in music theory.

Smith makes a complete twat of himself (quite apart from the toe-curling trendy vicar endorsement of LSD) by not knowing the first thing about music theory. For example, he talks about Coltrane's period with Monk, saying Monk used his percussive technique to “strike many chords at the same time”. First, Monk was a logician, and a master of precision; that's what Coltrane got from Monk. Monk's percussive playing was about articulation, not about note selection. Secondly, the sentence doesn't really make sense: a number of notes played at once is a chord. Two chords played at once is ... a bigger chord. Monk's chords were derived from his understanding of stride piano, not hitting random notes on a piano. In fact, Monk learned theory by dissecting piano rolls - and sheet music - of the old stride players. John Coltrane did not derive from this a “a system of playing chords on top of one another”, whatever that might mean. (Especially given that saxophone is a single-note-at-a-time instrument).

AKA monophonic (single-voiced)

Smith then goes on to briefly talk nonsense about modal jazz, before saying Giant Steps was "the first time he [Coltrane] recorded openly in the sheets of sound thing". No it wasn't. "Sheets of sound" was Ira Gitler's description of Coltrane's playing on the song Russian Lullaby on the Soultrane album, released in 1958, two years before Giant Steps, by which time he had pretty much abandoned the style. (Which consisted of a bank of ultra-rehearsed rapid runs).

Giant Steps isn't about "sheets of sound", (nor is it about "playing chords on top of one another"); it's about a very logical sequence of chords following a rapid descending major third step pattern, meaning the key centre changes three times within four bars; Coltrane was exploring the technique needed by soloists to negotiate those "giant steps" (hence the name!). (This chord pattern is known as the Trane Changes, or Coltrane Changes, and could have been explained to Smith by any jazz musician, including Gilad Atzmon, had he but asked).

Non musos take heart: my diatribe is over. If your eyes glazed over, take at least this from it - Martin Smith is a gobshite. His love of jazz is, I have no doubt, sincere, but his understanding of music theory is dire.

So is mine, but as I understood what you were talking about, my understanding is presumably better than Martin Smith's!

 

[audiotech]

Noticed that the Prof had posted on fb a pic of two memorials to Foot and Harman that have been placed in Highgate cemetery. A current member, who I've some respect for, posted a comment, 'turning in their graves'. No surprise to see that this didn't go down well with some of the party loyalists.

 

[articul8]

The Prof is an unbearably pretentious smug c*nt

 

[audiotech]

I'm not that interested in personal traits.

 

[chilango]

N

One good thing about this though (possibly) is the idea that it might cause a re-evaluation of democratic centralism in left-wing parties. i reckon it probably will tbh, cant imagine there are many groups apart from sparts and shit who will ignorei it completely

Nah.

Apart from your good selves there won't be any left wing parties left to dscuss it.
This pretty much marks the end of the Trot tradition in the UK. Be interesting to see where the SP take things freed from the shackles of competing with rival Trot franchises.