SWP expulsions and squabbles

[butchersapron]

Not sure if this helps:

"The precise platform of this opposition grouping remains to be seen, but at a minimum it will be calling for a recall SWP conference to be held to reject the DC report and review the treatment of the allegations against Smith."

Note it's the way the allegations were treated by the party, the CC and the DC, not the allegations themselves. That just sort of dissapears. I suppose they could argue that what would come out of the review will determine that but on a tactical level i think oppositionists need to say a damn sight more than that - even if to only say they would repeat the process but do it properly.

 

[audiotech]

Interesting article in Red Pepper by former IS member, John Palmer - Facing reality - after the crisis in the SWP.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Went to do some leafleting outside the town hall for a campaign against childrens centre cuts in Sheffield today. SWP had a stall there and JC (the incoming CC member, not the other one) was there. Got to wonder if she was there to try and get a feel for what the opposition is like round here.

 

[The39thStep]

Interesting article in Red Pepper by former IS member, John Palmer - Facing reality - after the crisis in the SWP.

Pretty much a rehash with hindsight of his article on Cliff some years ago.
"It isn't 1917 or indeed 1968 ,the organisation was better when I was in it, the world has changed to the extent that class is now only one of many things that a broader and more pluralistic party has to consider.Realign the liberal left.Lets have another go at building some sort of Socialist Alliance based on the experience of where at any time abroad this sort of thing has developed like Syriza."

 

[Pickman's model]

the organisation was better when I was in it

he would say that, wouldn't he

 

[The39thStep]

he would say that, wouldn't he

He doesn't actually but it is a reoccurring feeling that you get form these ex members. Easily done I sometimes come over a bit like that.Give him his due he will have lost 99% of his audience by referencing the debate about Rosa Luxemburg type organisations.

 

[The39thStep]

Funnily enough having been plagued by the current debate about defending the IS tradition, I went back and looked at the platform of the IS Opposition which Higgins, Palmer et al were involved in. Their position was

Democratic centralism is not a luxury but an indispensable principle of internal organisation in the struggle to build a revolutionary socialist organisation

but then went on to describe democratic centralism but not as we know it in the IS/SWP

 

[past caring]

On the subject of music, you seen that the Rockingbirds are going to release a new album?

Touring too.

Mekons dates later this year also.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

He doesn't actually but it is a reoccurring feeling that you get form these ex members. Easily done I sometimes come over a bit like that.Give him his due he will have lost 99% of his audience by referencing the debate about Rosa Luxemburg type organisations.

The failure of the German revolution is part of the pre-history of the origins of IS and the SWP. Members of the SWP know who Rosa Luxemburg was.

 

[Pickman's model]

The failure of the German revolution is part of the pre-history of the origins of IS and the SWP. Members of the SWP know who Rosa Luxemburg was.

some of them anyway

 

[tony collins]

Hi everyone

This is only a small thing, but I was reading through the thread and someone asked if a "Tony C" was me from Socialist Unity. It wasn't - the reason I'm posting is cos of what I say when I post on SU: I only post using my full name, and I never lie about who I am. As poncy as that sounds, it's something that I stick to. So, no, that guy wasn't me.

And anyway, I'm mortally wounded by the idea that I was in the SWP in the 1970s! I joined in 2002 and was auto-expelled in 2007 (by Martin Smith, who told me that according to their records, I had never been a member... just after they realised that I was opposed to their actions over Respect). I'm only in my early 40s, but possibly have consumed the same number of pies as a normal man would by the time he reaches his 60s.

Anyway, great thread. I've never posted before, and I dunno whether to be embarrassed about the fact that my first post is about something so lame as whether I was stirring up-thread or not. I've not got much to say on the main subject that I haven't already said over on SU.

 

[The39thStep]

The failure of the German revolution is part of the pre-history of the origins of IS and the SWP. Members of the SWP know who Rosa Luxemburg was.

You suggesting that palmer thinks a) swp members are the audience and/or b) the best way to do this is through an article in red pepper?

 

[Pickman's model]

Hi everyone

This is only a small thing, but I was reading through the thread and someone asked if a "Tony C" was me from Socialist Unity. It wasn't - the reason I'm posting is cos of what I say when I post on SU: I only post using my full name, and I never lie about who I am. As poncy as that sounds, it's something that I stick to. So, no, that guy wasn't me.

And anyway, I'm mortally wounded by the idea that I was in the SWP in the 1970s! I joined in 2002 and was auto-expelled in 2007 (by Martin Smith, who told me that according to their records, I had never been a member... just after they realised that I was opposed to their actions over Respect). I'm only in my early 40s, but possibly have consumed the same number of pies as a normal man would by the time he reaches his 60s.

Anyway, great thread. I've never posted before, and I dunno whether to be embarrassed about the fact that my first post is about something so lame as whether I was stirring up-thread or not. I've not got much to say on the main subject that I haven't already said over on SU.

don't fuss if you get any personal abuse, it's just an initiation rite.

 

[SpineyNorman]

don't fuss if you get any personal abuse, it's just an initiation rite.

Why'd you have to go and warn the cunt?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Went to do some leafleting outside the town hall for a campaign against childrens centre cuts in Sheffield today. SWP had a stall there and JC (the incoming CC member, not the other one) was there. Got to wonder if she was there to try and get a feel for what the opposition is like round here.

Jesus has joined the central committee?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Jesus has joined the central committee?

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm only in my early 40s, but possibly have consumed the same number of pies as a normal man would by the time he reaches his 60s.

I hear you, comrade. I hear you.

 

[frogwoman]

pies, they are in you

 

[kavenism]

From what I can gather about this the person who posted that doesn't quite have it right. It was one woman, not two, and she never complained about anything - the complaints came from two female members of the SWP who had nothing to do with it and had a bit of a grudge against him (nowt wrong with that by the way, I'm a big fan of grudges, me, and always try to hold as many as possible at any one time). Doesn't necessarily mean it's not true I guess but whoever is posting that either has the wrong end of the stick or is being deliberately dishonest.

The person he raped was my ex. And the story was true, expelled for two years without fuss and only that in exchange for her not going to the police. I never asked her the details of why she didn't go. She keeps a very low online profile now, blocked all her former political friends on FB.

 

[SpineyNorman]

The person he raped was my ex. And the story was true, expelled for two years without fuss and only that in exchange for her not going to the police. I never asked her the details of why she didn't go. She keeps a very low online profile now, blocked all her former political friends on FB.

Fair enough - someone's been telling me some dodgy stories then

 

[kavenism]

Fair enough - someone's been telling me some dodgy stories then

He was an utter shit. In 2010 at some birthday event for a prominent SWP member (I don’t remember which) held at a venue on Brick lane he started shoving her around in front of everyone. I lost two hubcaps driving from west London to pick her up. Suffice to say he wasn’t best disposed towards me. Now all I do is occasionally wind him up using my sock puppets. Not much justice really.

 

[The39thStep]

Jesus has joined the central committee?

He is five foot nine
He is divine
He plays left back for Palestine
Has anybody here seen JC?

 

[imposs1904]

The person he raped was my ex. And the story was true, expelled for two years without fuss and only that in exchange for her not going to the police. I never asked her the details of why she didn't go. She keeps a very low online profile now, blocked all her former political friends on FB.

So, let's get this right. Andy Wilson gets "expelled for life" 20 years ago for wanting to set up an independent culture magazine and someone gets expelled for two years for rape? Toxic, totally effing toxic organisation.

There will be journalists reading this thread rubbing their hands.

 

[kavenism]

So, let's get this right. Andy Wilson gets "expelled for life" 20 years ago for wanting to set up an independent culture magazine and someone gets expelled for two years for rape? Toxic, totally effing toxic organisation.

There will be journalists reading this thread rubbing their hands.

What journalists? Does anyone outside the far left and their miniscule number of watchers even give a shit? After all, when the majority of of people associate Marxism-Leninism with an outdated political ideology associated with the deaths of millions in Russia, would the reporting of a dodgy sexist/rape culture in one of these parties not seem like small beer, or at least acting according to form?

 

[imposs1904]

What journalists?

Do you think Laurie Penny would have written that original article for New Statesman if she hadn't already been on Urban checking out her thread?

 

[kavenism]

Do you think Laurie Penny would have written that original article for New Statesman if she hadn't already been on Urban checking out her thread?

It was all over FB and Twitter too. There's no reason to think she saw it here first. Besides it's only "journalists" like her who labour under the curious premise that "the SWP matters" (like really matters, like serious stuff matters) who are likely to write anything. She seems to be bored of it now anyway.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It was all over FB and Twitter too. There's no reason to think she saw it here first. Besides it's only "journalists" like her who labour under the curious premise that "the SWP matters" (like really matters, like serious stuff matters) who are likely to write anything. She seems to be bored of it now anyway.

Daily Mail and Independent have reported it already as far as I remember - don't forget there will be at least one journo on each paper who is a far-right/far-left trainspotter geek like most of us.

 

[The39thStep]

So, let's get this right. Andy Wilson gets "expelled for life" 20 years ago for wanting to set up an independent culture magazine and someone gets expelled for two years for rape? Toxic, totally effing toxic organisation.

There will be journalists reading this thread rubbing their hands.

Didn't Wilson have a AMM stall at Marxism the other year?

 

[frogwoman]

What journalists? Does anyone outside the far left and their miniscule number of watchers even give a shit? After all, when the majority of of people associate Marxism-Leninism with an outdated political ideology associated with the deaths of millions in Russia, would the reporting of a dodgy sexist/rape culture in one of these parties not seem like small beer, or at least acting according to form?

there are also a few right wing journos looking to "discredit" the far left as well (not that it seems to need much at the mo )

 

[imposs1904]

Didn't Wilson have a AMM stall at Marxism the other year?

no idea. it's been a few years since I've attended the annual Recruitathon.