SWP expulsions and squabbles

[redsquirrel]

^ Aye that would be great.

 

[discokermit]

fighting jazz with jazz.

 

[butchersapron]

Atzmon: fighting jews with jews

 

[past caring]

Danny: you obviously like talking about it, so any chance of a dedicated jazz music theory lecture thread with illustrative YouTube links? Id find it interesting and im sure many others would.

Yeah, all the noggins on here.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

John Molyneux posted a preface today on his blog to the Korean edition of his Marxism and the Party book. Some general remarks are interesting enough but the crucial bit in the current context is the last part of the preface where he talks about the prevailing 'anti Leninist' mood and the wave of excitement about projects like Syriza as opposed to growing disdain for small Bolshevik orgs. I did enjoy the bit where he says it's not so much anarchism or autonomism at work but instead a "
radicalised version of neo-liberal individualism which developed a very strong hold on youth consciousness over the past couple of decades"

http://johnmolyneux.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/preface-to-marxism-and-party-korean.html?m=1

Safe to say that he's not joining the dissidents any time soon.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

why "moderate"? where did you get that from?

Mainly cause he at least questioned what the guy was up to. The more trenchant seymourites are just seizing any bit of dirt they can written by anyone without much caring where it's come from. As when Seymour goes all mushy over Owen Jones article without really reckoning with the fact he wants everyone to join Labour.

 

[discokermit]

Mainly cause he at least questioned what the guy was up to. The more trenchant seymourites are just seizing any bit of dirt they can written by anyone without much caring where it's come from. As when Seymour goes all mushy over Owen Jones article without really reckoning with the fact he wants everyone to join Labour.

you see, your description of the "trenchant seymourites" doesn't fit with what i know about conor, whatever level his opposition.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

you see, your description of the "trenchant seymourites" doesn't fit with what i know about conor, whatever level his opposition.

Which is why I'd say he's more of the moderate variety but I haven't talked to him in about oh 20 years so should really not hazard a proper guess!

 

[discokermit]

Which is why I'd say he's more of the moderate variety but I haven't talked to him in about oh 20 years so should really not hazard a proper guess!

what i'm saying is, if he weren't a moderate, he'd still be saying the same things. if his experience differs from what that feller says, he's gonna say so.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, all the noggins on here.

On the subject of music, you seen that the Rockingbirds are going to release a new album?

 

[barney_pig]

Mainly cause he at least questioned what the guy was up to. The more trenchant seymourites are just seizing any bit of dirt they can written by anyone without much caring where it's come from. As when Seymour goes all mushy over Owen Jones article without really reckoning with the fact he wants everyone to join Labour.

Seymour isn't alone, his mirrors over on harrys place are also throthing at Owen jones' apostasy

 

[Bun]

Posted on SU...... WTF!


I’m not feeling too understanding about the SWP – I’ve seen this kind of shit covered up before and anyone who asked awkward questions was silenced pronto. Does anyone want to know about J*** S**** ex Sheffield organiser, and National Marxism office worker ? He attacked 3 women and was suspended for 2 years – no disputes committee involvement, so he just disappeared and Sheffield loyalists “forgot” all about it. The women bloody didn’t. That’s the organisation Seymour and Meiville are fighting to reconstruct. Give it up guys, you can’t reform a malignancy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Which is why I'd say he's more of the moderate variety but I haven't talked to him in about oh 20 years so should really not hazard a proper guess!

He might say you'd not been speaking for about 20 years

 

[danny la rouge]

I think you're wrong there, though. Last time i tried playing piano I'll swear i was striking many chords at the same time.

Yes, well, a chord is two or more notes played at once. What you did may have been what we call a bad chord.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, well, a chord is two or more notes played at once. What you did may have been what we call a bad chord.

A cacaphony, in technojargon; a chord is the notes of an arpeggio played simultaneously. What yer man did was make a fist and bash the keyboard.

 

[danny la rouge]

Danny: you obviously like talking about it, so any chance of a dedicated jazz music theory lecture thread with illustrative YouTube links? Id find it interesting and im sure many others would.

I'll do a bit on racism, too. And say something edgy about LSD.

 

[JimW]

I'll do a bit on racism, too. And say something edgy about LSD.

Or better still, do it on LSD and veer into some weird racism about Inuit people.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I'll do a bit on racism, too. And say something edgy about LSD.

Something like this...it was better than decimalisation; that bureaucratic import which played no small part in undermining working class culture, identity and solidarity.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[two sheds]

Yes, well, a chord is two or more notes played at once. What you did may have been what we call a bad chord.

It had black notes in there, too.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Posted on SU...... WTF!


I’m not feeling too understanding about the SWP – I’ve seen this kind of shit covered up before and anyone who asked awkward questions was silenced pronto. Does anyone want to know about J*** S**** ex Sheffield organiser, and National Marxism office worker ? He attacked 3 women and was suspended for 2 years – no disputes committee involvement, so he just disappeared and Sheffield loyalists “forgot” all about it. The women bloody didn’t. That’s the organisation Seymour and Meiville are fighting to reconstruct. Give it up guys, you can’t reform a malignancy.

From what I can gather about this the person who posted that doesn't quite have it right. It was one woman, not two, and she never complained about anything - the complaints came from two female members of the SWP who had nothing to do with it and had a bit of a grudge against him (nowt wrong with that by the way, I'm a big fan of grudges, me, and always try to hold as many as possible at any one time). Doesn't necessarily mean it's not true I guess but whoever is posting that either has the wrong end of the stick or is being deliberately dishonest.

 

[Pickman's model]

It had black notes in there, too.

black and white unite and fight, cacaphony now!

 

[Bun]

From what I can gather about this the person who posted that doesn't quite have it right. It was one woman, not two, and she never complained about anything - the complaints came from two female members of the SWP who had nothing to do with it and had a bit of a grudge against him (nowt wrong with that by the way, I'm a big fan of grudges, me, and always try to hold as many as possible at any one time). Doesn't necessarily mean it's not true I guess but whoever is posting that either has the wrong end of the stick or is being deliberately dishonest.

Ah, OK. The bloke posting made it sound like the return of jack the ripper.

 

[Pickman's model]

Posted on SU...... WTF!


I’m not feeling too understanding about the SWP – I’ve seen this kind of shit covered up before and anyone who asked awkward questions was silenced pronto. Does anyone want to know about J*** S**** ex Sheffield organiser, and National Marxism office worker ? He attacked 3 women and was suspended for 2 years – no disputes committee involvement, so he just disappeared and Sheffield loyalists “forgot” all about it. The women bloody didn’t. That’s the organisation Seymour and Meiville are fighting to reconstruct. Give it up guys, you can’t reform a malignancy.

disappeared? proper disappeared like?

 

[Pickman's model]

the return of jack the ripper.

first time as tragedy, second time as farce

 

[Fozzie Bear]

The AMM call for:

"open revolt"

in order to:

"restore democracy in the SWP"

http://www.unkant.com/2013/01/time-to-fight-crisis-in-swp.html

But also:

• immediately remove Martin Smith from all positions of responsibility until further notice
• overturn the DC report and instigate a full inquiry into the handling of the previous investigation
• censure the entire Central Committee and move to replace them all
• reinstate those members expelled for opposing the DC report
• abolish the slate system for electing the CC
• institute the elective principle throughout the entire party - all full-timers to be recallable and fully accountable
• full rights to factions, including the right to publish and to organise
• full rights for members to communicate directly with one another

 

[butchersapron]

But what do they think should happen as regards the allegations. That's a pretty important question that needs to be faced up to by all opposing the CC. And that is not just a question of overturning the DC's report and re-election.

 

[butchersapron]

They also need to say what 'open revolt' means - in immediate practical terms. And given that they word their defence of the opposition in terms of them representing the real democratic centralism then they have a pretty big task to make the violent rhetoric of 'open revolt' match the requirements of DC to go through the proper party structures. Which they say are not worth the paper they're written on. I don't mean to be harsh but i think they've found themselves in a position where all the things they wanted to happen are starting to happen and they don't know what to do or how to respond.

Btw, does Seymour work? Or is writing his work? I don't ask to make a point about 'real work' etc but about the time-based resources the opposition have at their disposal. i.e is he zipping around the country on the back of China's harley as cliff was?

 

[The39thStep]

The AMM call for:

"open revolt"

in order to:

"restore democracy in the SWP"

http://www.unkant.com/2013/01/time-to-fight-crisis-in-swp.html

But also:

• immediately remove Martin Smith from all positions of responsibility until further notice
• overturn the DC report and instigate a full inquiry into the handling of the previous investigation
• censure the entire Central Committee and move to replace them all
• reinstate those members expelled for opposing the DC report
• abolish the slate system for electing the CC
• institute the elective principle throughout the entire party - all full-timers to be recallable and fully accountable
• full rights to factions, including the right to publish and to organise
• full rights for members to communicate directly with one another

No calls to reinstate those who were happy to be full timers in the SWP but who have been expelled for wanting to set up a culture magazine?

 

[imposs1904]

No calls to reinstate those who were happy to be full timers in the SWP but who have been expelled for wanting to set up a culture magazine?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

But what do they think should happen as regards the allegations. That's a pretty important question that needs to be faced up to by all opposing the CC. And that is not just a question of overturning the DC's report and re-election.

Not sure if this helps:

"The precise platform of this opposition grouping remains to be seen, but at a minimum it will be calling for a recall SWP conference to be held to reject the DC report and review the treatment of the allegations against Smith."