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SWP expulsions and squabbles

One_Stop_Shop said:
Just to be clear given the response from dennisr. These quotes from facebook:

Were made on facebook by Steve Hedley and have no connection to the current investigation going on. As they were made on a thread open to over 1000 people I don't see any reason for it not to be public.
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& obviously it should be made publick on this thread
 
I see that Seymour has now posted Davidson's piece from the pre-conference bulletin a few years ago. It's a lot more substantial than most of the other articles on the new blog, but the (probably tactically necessary given the audience and context) ridiculous talking up of the SWP in the first part of it makes my teeth hurt.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Actually that does explain two things in the Prof's review I hadn't really understood when I read it.

One is this "Neil offers Political Marxists a huge hostage to fortune when he endorses Marcel van der Linden’s proposal to submerge wage workers in the much broader category of 'subaltern workers'." Clearly relevant to the current debates about the working class as agent of change.

And the other on permanent revolution where he chastises Neil for having too rigid a line between political and social revolutions: " Neil’s unwillingness to see the potential for permanent revolution that may be present in political upheavals in capitalist states ". Again you can see how this could lead to the Counterfire stuff about political upheavels taking precedence over economic ones.

I'd love an excuse not to read the rest of Davidson's excellent book. Got it yesterday in the post as there's no digital version and the bloody print is tiny even with my old man's glasses on.
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Hidden in notes (and did you see the german barb?) - got lots to say about this weasel of a piece, but not relevant to thread
 
One_Stop_Shop said:
I know people involved, which is why it concerns me, but there you. Also it's a bit much that you are ok with SP members on here trawling over the details of the SWP case, but are defensive about this.

Obviously there has to be an investigation, and I haven't commented on the details and agree people shouldn't, which is why I didn't copy the quotes with the details that are going round on facebook.

But the quotes he put on facebook aren't in any doubt and are a seperate matter. Those alone would warrant suspension from a left organisation in my view. It's hardly smearing the SP by association, he is an SP member and has made those comments.
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The difference is that this has apparently been reported to the police and so any comments we make could potentially affect an investigation. There were no criminal or legal procedings wrt delta. And we didn't start commenting on comrade delta until after the SWP completed a botched investigation into the case. If there really is a police investigation going on there's not much the SP or the RMT can do until that's been sorted.

Anyway, I really don't think we should be discussing it on here - I don't see what possible good it could do, regardless of what you think about the SP or RMT.
 
SpineyNorman said:
The difference is that this has apparently been reported to the police and so any comments we make could potentially affect an investigation. There were no criminal or legal procedings wrt delta. And we didn't start commenting on comrade delta until after the SWP completed a botched investigation into the case. If there really is a police investigation going on there's not much the SP or the RMT can do until that's been sorted.

Anyway, I really don't think we should be discussing it on here - I don't see what possible good it could do, regardless of what you think about the SP or RMT.
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Fair enough, and I have clearly said people shouldn't discuss the details, and I agree for now there it is better not to discuss it at all. When I saw it I was angry as I know some history, but it should be left to the police.

But the comments I posted from facebook, as said above, are an entirely different thing. They have been made in public and aren't in any way related to the police investigation. People have had a go (in a PM) for raising that in this thread, but other people have raised the general issue of sexism and how the left deals with it (and I can imagine the response if I'd done a whole new thread on it). Personally I think those comments alone are enough for political organisation or union to suspend someone and have an investigation. If someone said that to a woman in work I imagine they would be facing a gross misconduct charge. There is no reason why SP members can't comment on that or it shouldn't be talked about.
 
One_Stop_Shop said:
Fair enough, and I have clearly said people shouldn't discuss the details, and I agree for now there it is better not to discuss it at all. When I saw it I was angry as I know some history, but it should be left to the police.

But the comments I posted from facebook, as said above, are an entirely different thing. They have been made in public and aren't in any way related to the police investigation. People have had a go (in a PM) for raising that in this thread, but other people have raised the general issue of sexism and how the left deals with it. Personally I think those comments alone are enough for political organisation or union to suspend someone and have an investigation. If someone said that to a woman in work I imagine they would be facing a gross misconduct charge. There is no reason why SP members can't comment on that or it shouldn't be talked about.
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Stop now.
 
One_Stop_Shop said:
Fair enough, and I have clearly said people shouldn't discuss the details, and I agree for now there it is better not to discuss it at all. When I saw it I was angry as I know some history, but it should be left to the police.

But the comments I posted from facebook, as said above, are an entirely different thing. They have been made in public and aren't in any way related to the police investigation. People have had a go (in a PM) for raising that in this thread, but other people have raised the general issue of sexism and how the left deals with it. Personally I think those comments alone are enough for political organisation or union to suspend someone and have an investigation. If someone said that to a woman in work I imagine they would be facing a gross misconduct charge. There is no reason why SP members can't comment on that or it shouldn't be talked about.
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It is really not appropriate to discuss it right now though - or on this thread which is about the SWP.
 
That blog post now has a comment from Conor Kostick, a former part of the leadership of the Irish SWP, now as he says in his post "hardly the most active member". Kostick basically agrees with the British opposition but wants to know if the stuff about Ireland is supposition or based on actual knowledge.
 
Nigel Irritable said:
That blog post now has a comment from Conor Kostick, a former part of the leadership of the Irish SWP, now as he says in his post "hardly the most active member". Kostick basically agrees with the British opposition but wants to know if the stuff about Ireland is supposition or based on actual knowledge.
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conor is great.
 
yes he will not be loved for responding to a 'sectarian blog' rather than going to a branch meeting and asking the same questions I'd imagine.
 
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