Supermarkets like sainsburies, airports, etc, spying on disabled and sick people

[equationgirl]

Disabled and Sick People, there is discussion whether they are seperate entitities

Entities? Groups surely.

You can have a disability yet not be sick/unwell or sick/unwell without having a disability. But there will be a lot of overlap because of the way some medical conditions are defined as disabilities under the equality act 2010.

 

[equationgirl]

Well I would say there is a fairly distinct difference in that the first group won't recover and the second group eventually will.
Who are you trying to start a conversation with? I imagine that the vast majority of people in this forum would agree that the disabled and long term sick are very shabbily treated by the system.

A question long asked of treelover, given he is not a new poster.

 

[equationgirl]

Well I would say there is a fairly distinct difference in that the first group won't recover and the second group eventually will.
Who are you trying to start a conversation with? I imagine that the vast majority of people in this forum would agree that the disabled and long term sick are very shabbily treated by the system.

A disability isn't necessarily something that is recovered from, nor is every illness something that goes away.

 

[treelover]

Well I would say there is a fairly distinct difference in that the first group won't recover and the second group eventually will.
Who are you trying to start a conversation with? I imagine that the vast majority of people in this forum would agree that the disabled and long term sick are very shabbily treated by the system.

No one on here, though I question why PM is so pedantic on these issues rather than others, but historically i have witnessed a lack of support from movements and people who should be natural allies of disabled and sick people.

an example, today there has been a Stand Up to Racism event, very very well attended, org by the SWP, several momentum members/chairs in attendance, vicars, union types, etc, awhile ago a small disabled action group organise a well publicised meeting on the Crisis In Social Care, there were ten people there, one CLP chair, one Gp member, and other DASP, the unions, churches, wider left, etc, who attended the above, were absent. There is a hierarchy of oppression in the UK, more so, than Europe etc. what do you think i (and the sick people there)will take away from the contrast.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh Christ almighty, we aren’t going to return to the endless whataboutery are we?

I actually agree about the importance of disability related issues and that they’re underrepresented but I cannot agree with this nonsense. You sabotage your own position in the same post that you make it.

 

[treelover]

But if they are under-represented, then you have to ask why?

i say there is a hierarchy of oppression in the UK, not just the left, civil society, but the media, they have been informed about the issues in the OP, nothing.If hundreds of any other minority group were taking their own lives, don't you think there would be calls for action, to a point, its the same for prisoners, lots committed suicide, etc.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

But if they are under-represented, then you have to ask why?

Well all you ever suggest as an answer is that the vague "left" is more interested in anti-racism, which is basically fucking insulting to everyone who's, you know, involved in both, as well as coming across as reactionary and actually supporting racists. Plus by concentrating on that you excuse everyone else. "The left" is irrelevant here, it's who does what, this isn't some arcane debate about what the SWP's annual platform should be, who cares what the fucking SWP do.

 

[scifisam]

At the point they are following you to the supermarket, they’ve expended most of the effort and cost and the person following you might as well have a camera.

Someone said the cost of using this seems pretty disproportionate.

Alex

They wouldn't need to follow you to the supermarket if they could just access Sainsbury's footage. If someone claimed you were doing shopping on your own with no problems, they could get CCTV footage and claim it showed you doing that, even if actually it didn't really or it was an unusually good day for the claimant and they used it to do some shopping.

Not saying it definitely has happened - it'd be a little difficult for me to find an example of such a specific benefit fraud accusation so I can't prove it - but obviously it's possible for it to happen. It's not even difficult. And if it had never happened it would be strange of Sainsbury's to specifically mention the DWP as someone they share with.

 

[equationgirl]

But if they are under-represented, then you have to ask why?

i say there is a hierarchy of oppression in the UK, not just the left, civil society, but the media, they have been informed about the issues in the OP, nothing.If hundreds of any other minority group were taking their own lives, don't you think there would be calls for action, to a point, its the same for prisoners, lots committed suicide, etc.

Sometimes, as someone with disabilities, all I can think about is getting through the day. I don't have the spare capacity, especially after fighting 18 months of redundancies with my employer, something that has resulted in me being made redundant, and I certainly don't want to be lectured about what I should be doing. It's not apathy, I literally have no more to give.

Now think about how many other people might not have anything more to give.

 

[treelover]

Its not you or anyone like you, and you know that, but there are plenty of people you see at all the other events, and i mean all, but for some reason, they are absent at the above,

I have mentioned it before there was a requiem of the dead at parliament, the turn out from non DASP was pitiful.

 

[equationgirl]

Its not you or anyone like you, and you know that, but there are plenty of people you see at all the other events, and i mean all, but for some reason, they are absent at the above,

I have mentioned it before there was a requiem of the dead at parliament, the turn out from non DASP was pitiful.

Then why do you post here, about people not going? People you know support in other ways?

Either start encouraging support in your own local area, or stop posting these threads. Please.

 

[treelover]

They wouldn't need to follow you to the supermarket if they could just access Sainsbury's footage. If someone claimed you were doing shopping on your own with no problems, they could get CCTV footage and claim it showed you doing that, even if actually it didn't really or it was an unusually good day for the claimant and they used it to do some shopping.

Not saying it definitely has happened - it'd be a little difficult for me to find an example of such a specific benefit fraud accusation so I can't prove it - but obviously it's possible for it to happen. It's not even difficult. And if it had never happened it would be strange of Sainsbury's to specifically mention the DWP as someone they share with.

FOI request is pending.

I wonder if it has anything with the Sainsbury Foundation, promotes the 'all in the mind' model for many medical conditions,

 

[treelover]

Then why do you post here, about people not going? People you know support in other ways?

Either start encouraging support in your own local area, or stop posting these threads. Please.

Er, no, i won't, and yes, i have worked my socks off to get these people to events in the past.

 

[equationgirl]

And by using terms such as DASP and NON-DASP it alienates people and promotes a 'them and us' mindset.

What is wrong with using 'people' as the descriptor? I am more than my disabilities.

 

[equationgirl]

Er, no, i won't, and yes, i have worked my socks off to get these people to events in the past.

Then what do you hope to gain by continuing posting threads like these?

 

[treelover]

its shorthand for a group, less tiring for me.

 

[treelover]

Then what do you hope to gain by continuing posting threads like these?

don't worry, i won't be staying, the issue doesn't even look like it is going to get traction on here.

 

[equationgirl]

don't worry, i won't be staying, the issue doesn't even look like it is going to get traction on here.

Because we're not the right audience.

 

[existentialist]

FOI request is pending.

I wonder if it has anything with the Sainsbury Foundation, promotes the 'all in the mind' model for many medical conditions,

Personally, I am convinced of the role that psychosomatics plays in a lot of physical illness Anyone quite so ready to dismiss the connection is foolishly naive, in my opinion.

And I apply that as much to my own physical challenges as anyone else's

 

[Pickman's model]

No one on here, though I question why PM is so pedantic on these issues rather than others, but historically i have witnessed a lack of support from movements and people who should be natural allies of disabled and sick people.

an example, today there has been a Stand Up to Racism event, very very well attended, org by the SWP, several momentum members/chairs in attendance, vicars, union types, etc, awhile ago a small disabled action group organise a well publicised meeting on the Crisis In Social Care, there were ten people there, one CLP chair, one Gp member, and other DASP, the unions, churches, wider left, etc, who attended the above, were absent. There is a hierarchy of oppression in the UK, more so, than Europe etc. what do you think i (and the sick people there)will take away from the contrast.

you question do you? How's about you actually ask rather than continue this passive aggressive covert slagging

 

[alex_]

They wouldn't need to follow you to the supermarket if they could just access Sainsbury's footage. If someone claimed you were doing shopping on your own with no problems, they could get CCTV footage and claim it showed you doing that, even if actually it didn't really or it was an unusually good day for the claimant and they used it to do some shopping.

Not saying it definitely has happened - it'd be a little difficult for me to find an example of such a specific benefit fraud accusation so I can't prove it - but obviously it's possible for it to happen. It's not even difficult. And if it had never happened it would be strange of Sainsbury's to specifically mention the DWP as someone they share with.

Do you have any idea of the cost of searching the cctv footage for an entire day for a person you only have a photo of ?

We aren’t talking csi here or a major anti terror investigation, someone has to watch it all, there will be dozens of cameras and most of them will be sited to pick up thieves ( ie focused on tills/entrances/high value aisles) not regular customers.

While Sainsbury’s might have done his once, I can’t image the dwp do this very often.

Alex

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you have any idea of the cost of searching the cctv footage for an entire day for a person you only have a photo of ?

We aren’t talking csi here or a major anti terror investigation, someone has to watch it all, there will be dozens of cameras and most of them will be sited to pick up thieves ( ie focused on tills/entrances/high value aisles) not regular customers.

While Sainsbury’s might have done his once, I can’t image the dwp do this very often.

Alex

Say 30 cameras in store, open 0800-2200, 420 hours of footage, but can't watch in real time, maybe 4200 hours to go through it all. If you're lucky

 

[MickiQ]

Say 30 cameras in store, open 0800-2200, 420 hours of footage, but can't watch in real time, maybe 4200 hours to go through it all. If you're lucky

Assuming one person doing it on a normal 38hr week then that's over 2 years to scan the footage from a single supermarket.

 

[alex_]

Say 30 cameras in store, open 0800-2200, 420 hours of footage, but can't watch in real time, maybe 4200 hours to go through it all. If you're lucky

You then need to identify all of the say men who are between 30 and to 50, and then try and match them to what may be an out of date photo, and end up with evidence of a standard that you can take to the cps to pursuade them to prosecute.

Or you pay a private investigator to hang around for a few day, which probably costs less than 500 quid per day. Bargain !

Alex

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Give it a few years and the facial recognition tech will be cheap enough to be easily deployed. It's already being used in China.

 

[DotCommunist]

Give it a few years and the facial recognition tech will be cheap enough to be easily deployed. It's already being used in China.

pair that with gait recognition and its all fucked. Who knew everyone had an individual signature walking style? fucking cyberdyne

 

[andysays]

No one on here, though I question why PM is so pedantic on these issues rather than others, but historically i have witnessed a lack of support from movements and people who should be natural allies of disabled and sick people.

an example, today there has been a Stand Up to Racism event, very very well attended, org by the SWP, several momentum members/chairs in attendance, vicars, union types, etc, awhile ago a small disabled action group organise a well publicised meeting on the Crisis In Social Care, there were ten people there, one CLP chair, one Gp member, and other DASP, the unions, churches, wider left, etc, who attended the above, were absent. There is a hierarchy of oppression in the UK, more so, than Europe etc. what do you think i (and the sick people there)will take away from the contrast.

I really don't want to get involved in your personal beef, but PM is well known in this forum for being actively pedantic on pretty much every issue under the sun.

Past history aside, you really haven't made a great case for your position on this thread, which is a shame because it is a significant issue and it deserves a better thread than you've given us.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

pair that with gait recognition and its all fucked. Who knew everyone had an individual signature walking style? fucking cyberdyne

If you do nothing wrong you have nothing to hide comrade...

 

[treelover]

You then need to identify all of the say men who are between 30 and to 50, and then try and match them to what may be an out of date photo, and end up with evidence of a standard that you can take to the cps to pursuade them to prosecute.

Or you pay a private investigator to hang around for a few day, which probably costs less than 500 quid per day. Bargain !

Alex

They can match it with banks statements, atm, etc, in airports time of flights, etc.

 

[treelover]

I really don't want to get involved in your personal beef, but PM is well known in this forum for being actively pedantic on pretty much every issue under the sun.

Past history aside, you really haven't made a great case for your position on this thread, which is a shame because it is a significant issue and it deserves a better thread than you've given us.

Shoot the messenger, why not contact the author of the article, Dr
Jay Watts, or the source of the article, Steve Topple.