Supermarkets like sainsburies, airports, etc, spying on disabled and sick people

[Shechemite]

most people in sainsbury's seem to barely grunt at the cashier as they pass through the checkout, which is as social as it gets most of the time.

i'd have thought mobility would have been demonstrated by simply getting to sainsbury's, as would vision. and as for communication, how much of it do you need when shopping?

Are you taking the piss?

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you taking the piss?

no.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your Rights | Sainsbury's Privacy Hub

You have to tap through the sections to get to the CCTV bit

yeh. i made the mistake of using the link in the guardian article.

 

[alex_]

yeh they'd have to find you first, and if you don't pay with a credit or debit card and you're not using a nectar card it's very hard to see how they could find you without going to an unreasonable amount of trouble.

At the point they are following you to the supermarket, they’ve expended most of the effort and cost and the person following you might as well have a camera.

Someone said the cost of using this seems pretty disproportionate.

Alex

 

[FridgeMagnet]

yeh. i made the mistake of using the link in the guardian article.

That link works fine; I used it just now independently of this thread and saw the "If we are required to by law, under any code of practice by which we are bound or where we are asked to do so by a public or regulatory authority such as the police or the Department for Work and Pensions" line.

Of course Sainsburys is not legally required to do whatever a public or regulatory authority asks, any more than any of us are. I would propose that it is telling who they decide to specifically include as examples in their privacy policy.

 

[Pickman's model]

That link works fine; I used it just now independently of this thread and saw the "If we are required to by law, under any code of practice by which we are bound or where we are asked to do so by a public or regulatory authority such as the police or the Department for Work and Pensions" line.

Of course Sainsburys is not legally required to do whatever a public or regulatory authority asks, any more than any of us are. I would propose that it is telling who they decide to specifically include as examples in their privacy policy.

Yeh. Only it doesn't take you to the cctv tab.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yeh. Only it doesn't take you to the cctv tab.

It would be impossible for the Guardian to provide a link to that specific section as all sections are hidden by default and Sainsburys have provided no permalink-able tags to individual parts of their policy. One might criticise their commitment to open data for not having done so; it isn't difficult.

 

[Pickman's model]

It would be impossible for the Guardian to provide a link to that specific section

Well, that's not entirely the case

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Well, that's not entirely the case

I would be interested to how they could have. Perhaps I've missed something.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Actually no, this is irrelevant, I won't be addressing it any more. Sainsburys' privacy policy which states that they'll hand over information to the DWP if asked (not just if legally required to) is there and linked to and everyone can see it. That's the important thing.

 

[Pickman's model]

I would be interested to how they could have. Perhaps I've missed something.

The guardian article is on about cctv sharing which is specifically mentioned in the cctv use section of this Your Rights | Sainsbury's Privacy Hub

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually no, this is irrelevant, I won't be addressing it any more. Sainsburys' privacy policy which states that they'll hand over information to the DWP if asked (not just if legally required to) is there and linked to and everyone can see it. That's the important thing.

Tbh I don't know why you raised it itfp. But the elephant is that there's an unknown number of bodies who can ask Sainsburys to jump, not just the dwp or cops, and for whom the supermarket will roll over

 

[planetgeli]

If you shop at Sainsburies in Glastonberry will you be followed? And will your viza card work?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

If you shop at Sainsburies in Glastonberry will you be followed? And will your viza card work?

 

[A380]

Can the OP post a court report from a local or national newspaper where the DWP have used store CCTV footage to support the prosecution?

 

[SpookyFrank]

it has caused quite a storm on other fora, and Liberty are being pressured to challenge it,

Both meaningless statements. If people making a ruckus on web forums is evidence of anything then the earth must be flat, and also hollow, and also ruled by lizards etc etc. As for Liberty, they're 'being pressured' by whom? A large popular movement or one person sending increasingly pointed emails?

benefit claimants not a priority for you?

Now this is just childish. People are engaging with the issue you've raised, and taking time to look into it in some detail. If they come to a different conclusion than you that does not automatically mean they don't care about the people involved.

You are presumably aware that some of us actually are poor, sick or both? Being a heartless ivory-tower lefty intellectual is fun and all but it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't cure fibromyalgia.

 

[xenon]

most people in sainsbury's seem to barely grunt at the cashier as they pass through the checkout, which is as social as it gets most of the time.

i'd have thought mobility would have been demonstrated by simply getting to sainsbury's, as would vision. and as for communication, how much of it do you need when shopping?

It's not too hard to imagine someone claiming a disability benefit on the basis they have difficulty leaving their home. Physical disability or psychological. Then they are suspected of fraud, grassed up by someone who sees them in Sainsburries the other day.

A day they may have just about managed to get there in spite of their condition, been dropped off by a friend or similar.

Course, this isn't particular to supermarkets. I've just gone under the assumption that authorities investigating a suspected crime can get hold of CCTV amongst other information anyway.

 

[gosub]

I await the FOI that's in with interest... Walking round a Sainsbury and lifting things off shelves two things that would impact on a WCA

It would be helpful to the thread if you could give a concrete example of a supermarket giving CCTV footage to the DWP which was then used in an actual fraud case, but if you're unable to do that perhaps you could explain how, in hypothetical terms, such a thing might happen.

Perhaps my imagination is lacking, but I really can't see how footage of me shopping in my local Sainsburys could be used to demonstrate any sort of benefit fraud, TBH

 

[equationgirl]

I await the FOI that's in with interest... Walking round a Sainsbury and lifting things off shelves two things that would impact on a WCA

Even going to a sainsburys, or any shop, never mind the rest, could impact on a work capability assessment.

It's so unfair - actual fraud accounts for less than one per cent of claims. Yet genuine claimants live their lives in great stress because of the perception of fraud.

 

[treelover]

Absolutely, most disabled and sick people face a life of penury, surveillance, harassment, I asked years ago, and will ask again, where is the support, where are the allies?

btw, i followed the discussion on the Windrush issue on here, lots of (justified) extreme outrage, not so much dissection, so why on this issue?

Fact: DASP face a very hostile environment and are not being supported the way they should be, contrarians, PM, etc, argue with that..

 

[equationgirl]

Absolutely, most disabled and sick people face a life of penury, surveillance, harassment, I asked years ago, and will ask again, where is the support, where are the allies?

btw, i followed the discussion on the Windrush issue on here, lots of (justified) extreme outrage, not so much dissection, so why on this issue?

Fact: DASP face a very hostile environment and are not being supported the way they should be, contrarians, PM, etc, argue with that..

As you know, because we've had this conversation before, there are allies - just because they're not vocalising their ally status, it doesn't mean they're not supporting those who need it.

Lead by example. Be the change you want to see in others. But accept that people are constantly juggling priorities and that supporting the causes you see as important isn't always what other people will do.

 

[SpookyFrank]

btw, i followed the discussion on the Windrush issue on here, lots of (justified) extreme outrage, not so much dissection, so why on this issue?

Because the windrush scandal was based on a far broader range of sources, in particular personal testimony. This thread is bereft of first-hand accounts from anyone who has had their benefits stopped as a result of Sainsburys sending the DWP footage of them buying cornflakes.

 

[treelover]

Hopefully the FOI which some kind soul has initiated may bring that information, if positive, it will be interesting to see the response.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hopefully the FOI which some kind soul has initiated may bring that information, if positive, it will be interesting to see the response.

Can we now stop repeating what I said about 30 posts up?

 

[Pickman's model]

Absolutely, most disabled and sick people face a life of penury, surveillance, harassment, I asked years ago, and will ask again, where is the support, where are the allies?

btw, i followed the discussion on the Windrush issue on here, lots of (justified) extreme outrage, not so much dissection, so why on this issue?

Fact: DASP face a very hostile environment and are not being supported the way they should be, contrarians, PM, etc, argue with that..

Who have you shown solidarity with?

 

[Shechemite]

Interesting

 

[treelover]

I forget about that on her Twitter page, the sad thing is, that now more DASP will be too scared to go out, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

I forget about that on her Twitter page, the sad thing is, that now more DASP will be too scared to go out, etc.

Dasp? You do like your jargon but you don't like saying what it means

 

[treelover]

Disabled and Sick People, there is discussion whether they are seperate entitities

 

[MickiQ]

Disabled and Sick People, there is discussion whether they are seperate entitities

Well I would say there is a fairly distinct difference in that the first group won't recover and the second group eventually will.
Who are you trying to start a conversation with? I imagine that the vast majority of people in this forum would agree that the disabled and long term sick are very shabbily treated by the system.