Should the death penalty be reintroduced in the UK?

[Monte]

Yes but only for people who don't indicate on roundabouts.

 

[nottsgirl]

Christopher Craig killed a police officer, but at 16 he was too young to be executed, so his acomplice, Derek Bentley, who had learning difficuties, was charged with murder and hung.
This is a song about the case and the death penalty by Elvis Costello.

Accomplice in the original crime of burglary (iirc), argued strongly and pretty convincingly not to have been an accomplice in the murder.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Out of interest, did anyone remember who was around then or experience the last hanging in the UK in 1964 or the Abolition of Death Penalty Act 1965?

Was reading up on it and it mentioned been brought about by the 'changing attitudes' towards the use of the death penalty.

Be fascinating to hear anyone who has recollections of this first hand.

The Moors Murderers very narrowly escaped the death penalty. They were sentenced to life in prison in 1966.

 

[Aaronf]

The Moors Murderers very narrowly escaped the death penalty. They were sentenced to life in prison in 1966.

I think they would have hung if it had still been in?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I think they would have hung if it had still been in?

Almost certainly. It caused outrage among the public and the media, predictably.

 

[Aaronf]

Lord Longford campaigned for Myra Hindley's parole, I think believing in rehabilitation and that is one thing but actively seeking for a child murderer to go back into society is something else. I'm not sure if there are any similar figures to him around today but he would have opposed the return of the death penalty I assume.

 

[High Voltage]

Having just caught up with the more recent offerings on the FEB thread I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the death penalty, howsoever it is concluded, could be a far too lenient punishment for some

 

[maomao]

Not in the United Kingdom but in the future Workers' Republic of Britain we'll kick it all off with a week or two of hangings.

 

[Pickman's model]

If killer cops and soldiers were executed, then perhaps we would have less reason to fear being killed by agents of the state.

We could call it Mark's law

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Having just caught up with the more recent offerings on the FEB thread I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the death penalty, howsoever it is concluded, could be a far too lenient punishment for some

Go and have a plate of nice hash browns to cheer yourself up.

 

[High Voltage]

Go and have a plate of nice hash browns to cheer yourself up.

I've got a fucking list yunno!

 

[cupid_stunt]

People who are given life with no parole, can apply to die by capital punishment -

I can't agree with that, why should they be allowed a choice, when say someone getting a minimum 50 years, which could actually end-up being whole life, or as near to it as possible, not get a choice?

This is the sort of problem you get, if you cross that red line of 'NO'.

 

[brogdale]

Not in the United Kingdom but in the future Workers' Republic of Britain we'll kick it all off with a week or two of hangings.

Not really CP when those killed are actively engaged in class war; #Luigi

 

[Sasaferrato]

Out of interest, did anyone remember who was around then or experience the last hanging in the UK in 1964 or the Abolition of Death Penalty Act 1965?

Was reading up on it and it mentioned been brought about by the 'changing attitudes' towards the use of the death penalty.

Be fascinating to hear anyone who has recollections of this first hand.

I can remember Hanratty being executed, the case was widely reported.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well, I was born in the late 1950s. I don't remember the death penalty being abolished, but I know that the cases of Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, and James Hanratty and were ofen quoted as examples of the injustice of the death penalty.
Ruth Ellis was the last woman hanged in Britain, only about a decade before the death penalty was suspended, and she was seen by many people as more of a victim. Yes, she did gun down a man in the street, but many people thought that she was driven to it.

Hanratty's guilt was confirmed in 2002 by DNA evidence.

 

[Spymaster]

He was child when he committed his crimes, would you be OK with executing people who committed crimes when they were children?

A further question, which Spy's not answered; even if he were not a child when he did it, or if he was one of the tiny number of beyond doubt, beyond the pale that qualify for Spy's Tyburn jiggery, what in your view would be the benefit to society in killing them over life without parole?

My apologies. I do try to respond to everyone who quotes or tags me if they're polite, but I'm taking on about 20 posters here and occasionally stuff gets lost in the waves of opprobrium.

The benefits to society are numerous. CP delivers all of the benefits of life without parole with the added advantages of finality/closure and moral correctness. Fair societies seek to get as close to proportionality as possible in delivering justice. Obviously, complete proportionality isn't possible in the most heinous cases or we'd be arguing to rape rapists or stab Axel Ruducabana to death 300 times; but execution gets us as close as most of us believe necessary.

You say Rudacubana was a child when he committed the act and ask if I'd be ok with executing him. Personally, I'd be fine with it. I see no reason to treat him differently to an adult just because he tore those little girls to pieces a couple of days before his 18th birthday. I would certainly agree that in clearer cases we shouldn't be executing children, despite the likes of John Venables, who was 10 years old when he killed Jamie Bulger, and has been released and returned to prison several times (I think he is currently incarcerated) for noncing as an adult. We have to draw a line somewhere.

Someone also asked if the victim's relatives' wishes should be taken into account, implying that some of them have forgiven the perpetrators and that wouldn't be possible if we'd executed them. Relatives of victims are absolutely the last people who should have a say in sentencing, for obvious reasons. For every wishy-washy liberal Norwegian whose forgiven Breivik, there's another who wants him tortured to death.

None of the advocates of execution have proposed that the soldiers who killed 13 people on Bloody Sunday should be executed. There can be no mistake that they deliberately shot dead unarmed civilians who posed no threat to them.

Now that's not true, is it?

 

[Spymaster]

I can't agree with that, why should they be allowed a choice, when say someone getting a minimum 50 years, which could actually end-up being whole life, or as near to it as possible, not get a choice?

This is the sort of problem you get, if you cross that red line of 'NO'.

No it's not.

Just give all criminals the choice of execution.

 

[Spymaster]

I can remember Hanratty being executed, the case was widely reported.

Tbf, you can probably remember Jesus being crucified.

 

[two sheds]

Death penalty didn't work for Him, either, did it now, did it?

 

[Spymaster]

I think you will find that they are already dead

Some people can't be killed enough.

 

[Spymaster]

Whatever you do, it doesn't bring the children back. You keep the world safe from him. If necessary you do that until he dies. When he dies, you bury/cremate the body.

There is no justice in that sense. Whatever you do to Cooke does not undo what he did. Someone who didn't deserve to die died. The idea that you can somehow square the justice circle on that is a weird one, imo. You can't. The unfair thing cannot be undone.

Oh please!

You pretend to have researched the subject (you haven't; you've just sought out confirmation bias) then come out with this schoolboy drivel.

Should do better!

 

[brogdale]

Anyway, tell us more of this foolproof justice system of yours.

 

[CNT36]

I think yes but only for those who support it. They should also be entered into a pool and are randomly selected to carry it out. If they wuss out the sentence is reduced to a life sentence.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think yes but only for those who support it. They should also be entered into a pool and are randomly selected to carry it out. If they wuss out the sentence is reduced to a life sentence.

When sentences are reduced traditionally the stay in prison is shorter

 

[VivaE]

No it's not.

Just give all criminals the choice of execution.

What if no one takes up the offer?

 

[Spymaster]

What if no one takes up the offer?

We can but try.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

My apologies. I do try to respond to everyone who quotes or tags me if they're polite, but I'm taking on about 20 posters here and occasionally stuff gets lost in the waves of opprobrium.

The benefits to society are numerous. CP delivers all of the benefits of life without parole with the added advantages of finality/closure and moral correctness. Fair societies seek to get as close to proportionality as possible in delivering justice. Obviously, complete proportionality isn't possible in the most heinous cases or we'd be arguing to rape rapists or stab Axel Ruducabana to death 300 times; but execution gets us as close as most of us believe necessary.

You say Rudacubana was a child when he committed the act and ask if I'd be ok with executing him. Personally, I'd be fine with it. I see no reason to treat him differently to an adult, simply because he tore those little girls to pieces a couple of days before his 18th birthday. I would certainly agree that in clearer cases we shouldn't be executing children, despite the likes of John Venables, who was 10 years old when he killed Jamie Bulger, and has been released and returned to prison several times (I think he is currently incarcerated) for noncing as an adult. We have to draw a line somewhere.

Someone also asked if the victim's relatives' wishes should be taken into account, implying that some of them have forgiven the perpetrators and that wouldn't be possible if we'd executed them. Relatives of victims are absolutely the last people who should have a say in sentencing, for obvious reasons. For every wishy-washy liberal Norwegian whose forgiven Breivik, there's another who wants him tortured to death.



Now that's not true, is it?

It was me that asked about the victim’s relatives.

Point being that that they have been through hell, then waited for a trial, have it all dragged up again there in explicit detail and so on. Once they get lifed off they can start to move on with their lives, whether they forgive or not. If sentenced to death there will have to be appeals, if the family are anti CP they will now be put in the perverse situation where they must root for the cunt, their trauma is not allowed to end, even when the fucker swings they have a lifetime of guilt of a death on their hands, feeling they could have pushed harder to stop it. Hardly justice for the family.

 

[PTK]

Now that's not true, is it?

I think you will find that there was a public enquiry that lasted about ten years that established that members of the British Army shot dead unarmed civilians who posed no threat to them on Bloody Sunday. So, yes, it is indeed true that those people were murdered by those soldiers.

 

[Serge Forward]

Not really CP when those killed are actively engaged in class war; #Luigi

Brian Thompson was responsible for countless deaths and great human suffering in the name of profit. Yet he would never have seen a single day in prison for his crimes. In fact he was handsomely rewarded and lived like a king, trreated as a highly respected member of society. In a saner society, I don't think Thompson should have been executed either as I'm against capital punishment, but in the absence of such sanity in the powers that be, Luigi Mangione allegedly took the only option available to protect the public.

 

[Spymaster]

The last public poll on the re-introduction of the death penalty was in 2021 there doesn't seem to be any later than that. That gave 54% in favour, it would be interesting to see what it is currently if anyone is prepared to pay for a poll. I suspect the Ayes would still have it though, support tend to rise immediately following high profile cases like the Southport one and falls off when such cases fade from public memory.

It's difficult to gauge public support because the poll question is usually black or white, like the one in the OP. That results in a lot of knee-jerk "no", without any thoughtfulness, as we've seen from certain people on this thread. If the question was more nuanced, such as "should CP be restored for terrorists and child torturers who are undoubtedly guilty?" the result would likely be resoundingly in favour.

This poll confirms something that we all really know of course that opinions on Urban are FAR to the liberal end of the scale and not representative of the general public.

For sure. Beyond being a talking point and vehicle for poorly researched liberal bias, the poll is worthless.

Asking U75 for views on CP is akin to seeking knowledge on immigration from the BNP.