Should the death penalty be reintroduced in the UK?

[danny la rouge]

Put me down

Not unless we’re very, very, very sure.

 

[PTK]

Some people argue that the killing of a police officer is in a different category to the killing of a civilian, because an attack on those who maintain order is a threat to all of us. They call for execution to be introduced as the penalty for murder of police officers.

A murder committed by a police officer in the course of his duties, it could be argued, is worse than other murders, as it is a threat to us all. We should not go in fear that members of the state apparatus may kill us. Therefore, perhaps execution should be brought in as a punishment for members of the police and armed forces who murder members of the public.

 

[PTK]

He was a massive cunt too.

I would side with Cromwell against King Charles I.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Some people argue that the killing of a police officer is in a different category to the killing of a civilian, because an attack on those who maintain order is a threat to all of us. They call for execution to be introduced as the penalty for murder of police officers.

A murder committed by a police officer in the course of his duties, it could be argued, is worse than other murders, as it is a threat to us all. We should not go in fear that members of the state apparatus may kill us. Therefore, perhaps execution should be brought in as a punishment for members of the police and armed forces who murder members of the public.

On the contrary, we should fear the state apparatus and that they may kill us. It may not seem likely right now, but a while back in Northern Ireland it was not exactly unheard of. It also is more than a reasonable fear in Russia, Belarus, China, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Eritrea, Myanmar, Syria, Yemen etc etc

 

[PTK]

On the contrary, we should fear the state apparatus and that they may kill us. It may not seem likely right now, but a while back in Northern Ireland it was not exactly unheard of. It also is more than a reasonable fear in Russia, Belarus, China, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Eritrea, Myanmar, Syria, Yemen etc etc

Did you read my second paragraph?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Did you read my second paragraph?

I did and I replied to it. Particularly the second sentence of said paragraph.

 

[ice-is-forming]

But by who and why? Not necessarily for that specifically but seems a bad thing to have as precedent. I find it extremely difficult to imagine anyone killing anyone not in self defence doesn't have fucked up judgement on the basis they killed someone. That seems so fucked up I can't imagine it.

This is a really good point, I often think about this when we say that mental health issues and suicide aren't always related. But it's usually very clear when they are, the person has history or there is evidence etc..

 

[Serge Forward]

This poll confirms something that we all really know of course that opinions on Urban are FAR to the liberal end of the scale and not representative of the general public.

I'm no fucking liberal

 

[PTK]

I did and I replied to it. Particularly the second sentence of said paragraph.

If killer cops and soldiers were executed, then perhaps we would have less reason to fear being killed by agents of the state.

 

[two sheds]

Not read the thread but I've refined my own opinion on the death penalty.

Everyone should be asked 'do you believe the death penalty works?' and their answers recorded. Then, if someone is accused of a crime deserving of the death penalty, those believing it works should get it and those not believing it works shouldn't get it.

I now consider this foolproof

 

[Aaronf]

Out of interest, did anyone remember who was around then or experience the last hanging in the UK in 1964 or the Abolition of Death Penalty Act 1965?

Was reading up on it and it mentioned been brought about by the 'changing attitudes' towards the use of the death penalty.

Be fascinating to hear anyone who has recollections of this first hand.

 

[Humberto]

Lancman ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Out of interest, did anyone remember who was around then or experience the last hanging in the UK in 1964 or the Abolition of Death Penalty Act 1965?

Was reading up on it and it mentioned been brought about by the 'changing attitudes' towards the use of the death penalty.

Be fascinating to hear anyone who has recollections of this first hand.

DP should have been abolished in 1948. A bill was passed in the House of Commons. Fucking House of Lords blocked it. Cunts who never usually attended travelled down to London from their country piles to make sure it didn't happen. This country had the DP for nearly 20 years longer than it shoud have.

 

[Aaronf]

DP should have been abolished in 1948. A bill was passed in the House of Commons. Fucking House of Lords blocked it. This country had the DP for nearly 20 years longer than it shoud have.

Ah I did not know that. I see it was only suspended in 1965 and not abolished officially until 1969!

It's actually mad to think what would have become of the 2 last people to be executed or anyone for that matter between 1948-64.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ah I did not know that. I see it was only suspended in 1965 and not abolished officially until 1969!

It's actually mad to think what would have become of the 2 last people to be executed or anyone for that matter between 1948-64.

Yes, in 48, it was 5-year suspension initially, with the intention to follow up with abolition. That's often how abolition goes. Lords blocked the suspension.

 

[Aaronf]

I've got down the rabbit hole now as just realised that all this was only for murder, it remained for other crimes (several of them) until acts of the entire 1990's!

 

[Humberto]

I've got down the rabbit hole now as just realised that all this was only for murder, it remained for other crimes (several of them) until acts of the entire 1990's!

 

[ice-is-forming]

Not read the thread but I've refined my own opinion on the death penalty.

Everyone should be asked 'do you believe the death penalty works?' and their answers recorded. Then, if someone is accused of a crime deserving of the death penalty, those believing it works should get it and those not believing it works shouldn't get it.

I now consider this foolproof

Nice !

I wonder if knowing that you said that you wanted it recorded as a yes - would be a deterrent for anyone.

Did you see my suggestion?

People who are given life with no parole, can apply to die by capital punishment -

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've got down the rabbit hole now as just realised that all this was only for murder, it remained for other crimes (several of them) until acts of the entire 1990's!

Yes but never likely to be used. A sop to those who argued that different rules applied in times of war. Again, this is a common phenomenon around the world. Many countries have gone through, or are still in the process of going through, similar stages.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The 'times of war' thing is a powerful one for some people. The Netherlands abolished abolition temporarily following WW2 especially to execute collaborators. Not their finest hour.

 

[Aaronf]

What about someone lile Sidney Cooke? Unfortunately came across him, how is it fair that he's apparently still alive at 97yo when all his victims had their lives taken from them as children? Even Wikipedia says he has still been recently applying for parole!

To balance that out in fairness with a definite no for ever bringing the death penalty back, what do you do with people like him?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Whatever you do, it doesn't bring the children back. You keep the world safe from him. If necessary you do that until he dies. When he dies, you bury/cremate the body.

There is no justice in that sense. Whatever you do to Cooke does not undo what he did. Someone who didn't deserve to die died. The idea that you can somehow square the justice circle on that is a weird one, imo. You can't. The unfair thing cannot be undone.

 

[PTK]

Well, I was born in the late 1950s. I don't remember the death penalty being abolished, but I know that the cases of Timothy Evans, Derek Bentley, and James Hanratty and were ofen quoted as examples of the injustice of the death penalty.
Ruth Ellis was the last woman hanged in Britain, only about a decade before the death penalty was suspended, and she was seen by many people as more of a victim. Yes, she did gun down a man in the street, but many people thought that she was driven to it.

 

[Aaronf]

Whatever you do, it doesn't bring the children back. You keep the world safe from him. If necessary you do that until he dies. When he dies, you bury/cremate the body.

There is no justice in that sense. Whatever you do to Cooke does not undo what he did. Someone who didn't deserve to die died. The idea that you can somehow square the justice circle on that is a weird one, imo. You can't. The unfair thing cannot be undone.

I actually understand reading how you've put it, it's just sad and upsetting to think one human being can do these things to another and there's nothing you can do about it

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I actually understand reading how you've put it, it's just sad and upsetting to think one human being can do these things to another and there's nothing you can do about it

It's incredibly sad, yes. I just don't see how killing Cooke makes it any less sad.

 

[PTK]

Christopher Craig killed a police officer, but at 16 he was too young to be executed, so his acomplice, Derek Bentley, who had learning difficuties, was charged with murder and hung.
This is a song about the case and the death penalty by Elvis Costello.

 

[PTK]

I used to know someone who knew Harry Stanley, who was shot dead by the police in the London Borough of Hackney in 1999.
The cops were never brought to trial.

 

[Humberto]

'let him have it'?

 

[PTK]

'let him have it'?

Yes.

 

[Yossarian]

Wasn't the "let him have it" case Derek Bentley?