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Saudis / UAE / Egypt / Bahrain vs Qatar

I almost feel sorry for him. The Republicans never really liked him (they're having problems filling key posts in the administration because no one wants to be in the plane on fire and going down). But he did get them elected by lying to poor sods in the rust belt who dream about coal jobs coming back. So fuck him.
It's that "coal jobs returning" that really gets my piss boiling, he must know it's a pipe dream, that, and heavy industry in general 'returning' but he lied through his teeth.
Mind,having read some of the comments on Briefart and faux from his base, my sympathy for them is somewhat eroded, they just seem to want a target for their hate? Their comments make the most vitriolic posts on here seem like a garden tea party!
 
It's that "coal jobs returning" that really gets my piss boiling, he must know it's a pipe dream, that, and heavy industry in general 'returning' but he lied through his teeth.
Mind,having read some of the comments on Briefart and faux from his base, my sympathy for them is somewhat eroded, they just seem to want a target for their hate? Their comments make the most vitriolic posts on here seem like a garden tea party!
It's the same as the Brexit lies. The right have identified anger because of social injustice they've created and used it for their own benefit. Clever really. Ultimate of ironies...you remember Trump and 'drain the swamp'? Well Gary Cohn, his economic adviser, is saying gas not coal...and he's ex-Goldman Sachs.
 
It's the same as the Brexit lies. The right have identified anger because of social injustice they've created and used it for their own benefit. Clever really. Ultimate of ironies...you remember Trump and 'drain the swamp'? Well Gary Cohn, his economic adviser, is saying gas not coal...and he's ex-Goldman Sachs.
TTT never had an iota of interest in coal, or coal miners, it's just a useful tool,to roll back enviromental protections so the frackers and 'drill baby drill' sectors can have one last clear run.
And to destroy Obamas attempts to bring in universal health care.
On Brexit, we may have to agree to disagree:)
 
TTT never had an iota of interest in coal, or coal miners, it's just a useful tool,to roll back enviromental protections so the frackers and 'drill baby drill' sectors can have one last clear run.
And to destroy Obamas attempts to bring in universal health care.
On Brexit, we may have to agree to disagree:)
Cynical isn't it? Brexit is a bit more complicated but i don't want to derail the thread ( :D ..but all the main protagonists resigned from their jobs with in a week of 'victory' after driving around in a huge red bus with a lie written on the side of it which they shortly after said they didn't really mean).
 
On Bloomberg Trump's Qatar Curveball Makes Tillerson Improvise Policy Again
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‘Qatar -- Look!’

Yet Trump showed no concern for such complexities in his early morning tweets Tuesday.

“During my recent trip to the Middle East I stated there can no longer be funding of Radical Ideology,” Trump said in one of the messages. “Leaders pointed to Qatar -- look!”

His visit to Saudi Arabia last month was “already paying off,” he added. He reinforced his support for the Saudis with a call later Tuesday to King Salman, according to a White House statement.

Hours after Trump’s tweets, Tillerson went to work trying to calm the waters. On a stop in New Zealand, he said that “every country in the region has their own obligations they need to live up to. We are hopeful that the parties can resolve this through dialogue.”

By Wednesday, the White House was announcing that Trump had spoken with Qatar’s emir, offering to help the sides resolve their differences, “including through a meeting at the White House if necessary.”

The tweets, and Tillerson’s response, highlighted what’s become a hallmark of the administration, and one that diplomats and certainly U.S. allies had expected would fade over time: how to square Trump’s actions -- and online postings -- with what his senior Cabinet secretaries tell them about U.S. policy on trips overseas.
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Reading a couple of pieces about this it appears Trump and his team in their recent orb fondling visit were very supportive of Qatar at least in public. Team Trump took a belligerent stance against Iran and Salafi-Jihadis and aimed to unify the Gulfies. They left feeling the job to be done.

You can argue this in itself was a bit risky as Prince Mo of the KSA is a hotheaded lad. He's given to taking aggressive action like jumping into Yemen without clearing it with the DoD. He needs a win as that war is an inconclusive mess. It may be laying the groundwork for a war with Iran but so far this is diplomacy as we know it.

The Saudi Princes seem to have taken all the sabre rattling as a carte blanche to thwack their enemies. The KSA turning on the Qatari irritant seems to have blindsided Team Trump. Trump then makes it all worse by idiotically tweeting encouragement to the KSA as if this cock up was part of his clever plan. This article has his team then rushing to do damage control. Attempting to deescalate the situation and reassure Qatar that it is a valued US client. It points out this happens all the time with Trump. His team is being run ragged trying to clean up the boss's unforced errors.

This is typical Trump. He's given to confusing effusive messaging as he plays the room. He's eager to take credit and when he sees blame coming his way he takes evasive action. His instinct in conflict management is usually to bullshit and escalate. Because Trump according to his staff doesn't do "conventional politics" i.e. Trump is an inept manager of people, with a poor grasp of policy who tends to reverse his direction impulsively. He is as Jeb Bush said "Captain Chaos".
 
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On War On The Rocks A BASE IS MORE THAN BUILDINGS: THE MILITARY IMPLICATIONS OF THE QATAR CRISIS
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The Attack on Qatar

On May 23, the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy hosted a conference in Washington on Qatar’s links with the Muslim Brotherhood. The panelists included blue-chip names such as former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Mary Beth Long. The panelists laid out a long list of grievances against Qatar, such as its support for Hamas, Islamist fighters in Syria, and the Muslim Brotherhood, as well as its willingness to provide refuge for Taliban members.

Perhaps the most dramatic moment of the conference was Gates’s comment that the United States should consider relocating its Qatari base (discussed in detail below) elsewhere. Hacked emails of the Emirati ambassador to Washington, revealed the United Arab Emirates had encouraged Gates and reviewed his general remarks before the conference. This level of Emirati involvement was not apparent to those of us at the conference. It is quite possible that the Emirati ambassador, a charming and effective representative of his country, may have been a bit too clever: He possibly crossed the line from talented envoy to perceived string-puller, much like former Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar (and just about every American ambassador to Pakistan).

Later that same day, the Qatar News Agency reported that the Emir of Qatar made a speech at a military graduation calling for rapprochement with Iran and Israel and criticized its neighbors. Qatar immediately claimed its news websites had been hacked and outside observers reported that the emir actually made no remarks at the ceremony. Indeed, it has been reported that hackers linked to Russia were responsible for posting the fraudulent speech on Qatar’s state media website.
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The UAE usually tops the list for Gulfie lobbying in the US often spending nearly double what the Israelis do on bending Uncle Sam to their will. This article points out the many problems with moving that US base out of Qatar. Also that Qatar's shady dealings with the likes of the Taliban are sometimes useful to Uncle Sam.
 
Could this develop into a full blown war? Any chance that Qatar ends being invaded by the rest of the Gulf Co-operation Council?
 

The now familiar Trump Whitehouse good cop stupid cop routine.

Tillerson was critical of Qatar but he also pointed out that the blockade was hampering US operations against IS as well as raising other concerns. No such nuance from Trump he just endorses KSA actions against Qatar. These two men are not on the same page. They don't even have the same objectives. It's like they are not working in the interest of the same country.
 
In The WSJ Why the U.S. Shouldn’t Blindly Follow Saudi Arabia

Piece criticising Trump for his KSA First policy tilt. One of a number that complain Trump is actively encouraging instability in the Gulf. Trump does not do subtle and he often is an agent of chaos. The US has done some pretty destabilising things in this region in the past few decades but betting the farm on the pretty hapless current management of the KSA just seems like bad business to me.
 
In The FT Qatar falconry party: when the hunters became the hunted in Iraq
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According to a person familiar with the group, the hunting party — nine of whom were from the al-Thani ruling family — knew they were taking a gamble. The trip was carefully co-ordinated with Iraq’s interior ministry, which is widely believed to be infiltrated by pro-Iran operatives.

As the kidnapping began, their Iraqi guards slipped away, according to one person in contact with the former hostages. Helicopters landed nearby, suggesting some Iranian or Iraqi complicity in the operation. According to this account, the hostages were held underground in Baghdad’s green zone, home to most foreign diplomatic missions (Iraqi militia leaders said the prisoners were held in Iran). The hostages received poor food and little medication, leaving them physically and mentally scarred, their teeth rotting on their return. “They don’t say much,” the person said. “They need psychological support.”
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My bold, interesting twist that. The Iraqi interior ministry has been riddled with Iranian assets for over a decade.
 
On WSJ Turkey Sees Itself as Target in Saudi-Led Move Against Qatar
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But for Mr. Erdogan, this conflict is deeply personal. If Turkey allows Qatar’s autonomy to be crushed, officials in Ankara fear Mr. Erdogan’s administration could be next to face international pressure.

“Whatever Qatar is accused of, Turkey can also be accused of, and Erdogan is aware of that. There is a sense in the Turkish leadership that they are aiming at Qatar but really are trying to target us,” said Asli Aydintasbas, a Turkey specialist at the European Council on Foreign Relations. “Hence the reaction and the overreaction.”
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Just because Erdogan is paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get him.

The Turks have an ambiguous relationship with Iran. Being both bitter regional rivals and maintaining trade relationships. It's backing political Islam abroad that makes Ankara problematic for the Princes. Though the KSA has been very inconsistent on that flipping between backing some of The Brothers and getting the fear of them. Turkey taking Qatar's isolation as a red flag isn't surprising.
 
In The NYT Trump’s Business Ties in the Gulf Raise Questions About His Allegiances
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Mr. Trump and Ms. Trump looked for deals in Doha, Qatar, too, and the Trump organization eventually opened shell corporations there. “The growth and development is visionary and outstanding” in Doha, Ms. Trump told the Emirati publication Gulf News after a trip to Qatar in 2010 to solicit business.

But the Trumps had less luck in Doha. Their only business with Qatar was leasing office space in Trump Tower, in Manhattan, to the national airway. The airline moved out before Mr. Trump became president.

Now some in Qatar are asking if missing a chance to do business with the Trumps might have been a mistake, Clayton Swisher, a journalist who works for the Qatar-owned Al Jazeera network, wrote in a recent column on the subject.

“Could anyone have imagined that five or 10 years ago, when businessmen turned down a New York mogul and reality TV host auditioning for its investment,” he wrote, “that they were jeopardizing the security of their country?”
Qatar may be guilty of failing to make The Donald much more wealthy unlike some other Gulfies. Could be a big tactical error.

Hey but its not all one sided.

On TDB The British Establishment Has a Qatar Problem
 
US rebukes Saudi Arabia over Qatar embargo in reversal after Trump comments

The US state department has issued a stinging rebuke to Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies saying they had failed to come up with a justification for the embargo they imposed on Qatar earlier this month.

The public and blunt criticism of Riyadh and the United Arab Emirates marked a sharp about-turn from Donald Trump’s wholehearted backing for the embargo, and his accusations of terrorist funding against Qatar. It follows a increasing pattern in which the state and defence departments have pursued policies abroad that are far removed from Trump’s rhetoric...

so no joined-up thinking there, oh no
 
On Bloomberg Saudi King Names His Son as Heir to Throne in Palace Shakeup
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"Saudi has tried to assert its authority over a range of regional events, and by cementing the question of succession at this time, the region is on notice that this direction will be pursued for the long term," said Rodger Shanahan, a research fellow at the Lowy Institute for International Policy in Sydney.

"MBS’s youth means that there will be no interim succession - he will be in power for a long time and has been a very public proponent of a robust Saudi presence in the region."
And Mohammed bin Salman is a very impulsive young man of questionable judgement. State under Obama was often thought to favour Mohammed bin Nayef the former Crown Prince now pushed aside. That might explain the snit State's having over Qatar which increasingly looks like one of a series of succession manoeuvres.
 
On TSG Iran Benefiting from Gulf State Rift
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The dispute significantly complicates efforts by the Trump administration to assemble a broad and cohesive regional coalition to counter Iran’s regional influence. The Saudi-led isolation of Qatar came just two weeks after the visit by President Trump to Saudi Arabia in which countering Iran—and terrorism more broadly—was a pronounced theme. It is possible that the Trump visit’s highlighting of the Iran threat appeared to tilt the U.S. so far in the Saudi/UAE/Bahrain direction that the three were emboldened to wring major concessions from Qatar. Yet, the U.S. effort to contain Iran, and to operate throughout the region, depends on an access to an inter-connected web of Gulf military facilities, perhaps most prominent of which is Qatar’s Al Udeid Air Base where 10,000 U.S. Air Force personnel serve. A prolonged intra-GCC dispute is certain to interfere with the seamlessness of U.S. operations in the Gulf, whether or not U.S. access to Al Udeid is affected (which it has not to date)—and thus impinge on U.S. efforts to keep Iran militarily contained. Even if day-to-day U.S. operations are unaffected, the U.S. effort to construct an integrated ballistic missile defense system in the Gulf—intended to neutralize Iran’s increasingly large and sophisticated ballistic missile force—is sure to be hampered. These strategic considerations for Iran policy largely explain why U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has stepped in as a mediator to try to repair the rift as quickly as possible.

The Gulf rift’s effect on Iran’s regional position is likely to be mixed. In the near term, Iran’s allies, the Zaydi Shi’a Houthi rebels in Yemen are likely to benefit at least somewhat because Qatar is exiting the Saudi-led coalition and seeking to restore the Sunni-led government there. While Qatar’s ground contingent in Yemen is small, its air force is well trained and its air strikes have helped the Saudi-led effort. Iran’s position in Syria is likely to benefit marginally from the Gulf dispute. Qatar has been aiding groups such as Ahrar al-Sham against the Assad regime; this and other pro-Qatar groups have been effective against pro-Assad forces, particularly around Damascus. If, in an effort to resolve the rift, Qatar agrees to cease supporting its protégé groups in Syria, the overall opposition effort against Assad could weaken pro-Iranian forces in Syria, which might gain more room to advance. Conversely, Iran’s regional position could be set back if resolving the rift requires Qatar to cease its support for Hamas and end its humanitarian support for the Gaza Strip, which Hamas runs. Hamas has been a key instrument through which Iran puts pressure on Israel, and any weakening of Hamas weakens Iran’s regional strategy, particularly against Israel. However, these outcomes pale by comparison to the benefits Iran receives from watching the GCC, the its primary regional adversary, devolve into acrimony.
I recall reading when some Ayatollah's came to view the events of the early 21st century as Allah setting their enemies on a march of folly.

The toppling of their great enemy Saddam understood as a gift from God. Since then the Cedar Revolution went to shit in Lebanon and the IDF's 06 adventure up there came to nothing. What was to some extent a proxy war with Iran in Syria has gone badly wrong much to their advantage. The rise of Rafida hating IS has finally expanded their influence in Iraq. Prince Mo's vain and distracting chevauchée in Yemen. Now the anti-Iranian alliance of the GCC at Qatar's throat with DC making very confusing signals State pulling on the reigns while Trump digs in the spurs. And to cap off that run of luck an impulsive easily lured young man is in line to be King of their main Muslim regional rival. With a buffoon in the Whitehouse such a run of luck could make a fella cocky.
 
In The Atlantic The Gulf's Demands on Qatar Look Designed to Be Rejected
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The apparent requirement that Qatar pay reparations and submit to regular monitoring inspections over 12 years is reminiscent of the demands placed upon Serbia by the Austro-Hungarian empire after the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo in 1914. Those demands were made in the expectation that their rejection would form the basis for military action against Serbia, which triggered the chain of events culminating in the outbreak of World War I. While the strong U.S. military presence in all disputant states makes a similar conflagration unlikely, the signs that both sides are settling in for the long haul lends urgency to U.S. and Kuwaiti efforts to at least prevent events in the Gulf from spiraling further out of control.

Given that Qatar is unlikely to accept the conditions laid out in the list and that the U.S. government, as a whole, is unlikely to pick one side over the other, a key question is whether the Saudi- and Emirati-led bloc is prepared to go it alone in any further escalation. It may be that going in hard at the beginning offers room for compromise further down the line, but feelings on both sides of this dispute have been so inflamed that it is difficult to see either one backing down and risk losing face, even if Washington redoubles its efforts to work with Kuwait on a mediated solution.
Rather like the KSA's approach to terms in Yemeni peace talks.

Though the complaints against the Qataris do have some basis. Iraqi commentators have been pointing out AlJaz Arabic really deserves to be shut down as it's rampantly sectarian but then so are some KSA backed media outlets. The MB is an insincerely democratic massive fuck up as a basis for opposition parties. The ultra-conservative Salafists that some promote in opposition to them may be worse but it's a matter of degree.

Truth is the GCC countries are poorly led and tend to bumble about the region like playboys with more money than sense. Even relatively sober Jordan has a King whose pronouncements subjects often fail to take seriously. The KSA used to be somewhat balanced by a consensus needing to be attempted amongst the senior Princes but that's been discarded with the anointing of MbS. One of a disastrous series of over promoted reforming sons of dynastic houses: Gamal Mubarak, Bashar Assad, Saif Qaddafi etc. The upheavals of the Arab Spring could be looked at as rooted in failures of succession.

At times the US provided both protection and leadership to the GCC. The military-industrial Caliph to the wealthy Saudi Kingship. The 21st century has been a period when the US has been poorly led as well. The pious but overly bold Bush, the dithering, easily led Obama and now the completely unqualified Trump and his chaotically tweeting administration. All actors that stoked instability in MENA while busily selling the GCC vast quantities of arms only to be perplexed by rising terrorist threats and Iranian advances.

The Iranians under the Governance of the Jurist plan well ahead, make fewer mistakes and successfully exploit the unforced errors of their incompetent enemies. Allah will probably continue to favour the well prepared.
 
I think that's rather obvious,

e2a

...the upheavals of the Arab Spring could be looked at as rooted in failures of succession...

What? Seriously? The calls were for 'Bread, freedom, social justice, and human dignity'. doesn't sound much like failures of succession to me.
 
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