Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The People's Iron Fist vs Imperialist Jackboots: Revolutionaries and Anti-Communists Clash in Cuba

littlebabyjesus said:
Either that or it's gradually turned into something else - a deeply corrupt system that is primarily concerned with maintaining itself.

A very high proportion of young people in Cuba just want to leave. I don't blame them. No amount of lectures about what El Che and Fidel and Camilo did will change that.
Click to expand...

I don't blame them either, but where are they gonna leave to? Capitalist paradises like Haiti and Guatemala? It would be great if the entirety of Latin America could just relocate to the USA, but it doesn't seem like a feasible solution to mass poverty and neo-colonial domination that plagues the region.
 
Last edited:
A big thing, that I don't think is properly appreciated, is that the pathway to change that would involve the CP elite converting themselves into born-again capitalists is not available in Cuba's case - because the old capitalist class is still biding its time over in Miami ready to move in once the tide finally turns.

And turn it will. And a few years after that, we'll start reading stories in the world press about how homeless street children in Havana are being killed by the cops, just like in "democratic" Latin America.
 
Idris2002 said:
A big thing, that I don't think is properly appreciated, is that the pathway to change that would involve the CP elite converting themselves into born-again capitalists is not available in Cuba's case - because the old capitalist class is still biding its time over in Miami ready to move in once the tide finally turns.

And turn it will. And a few years after that, we'll start reading stories in the world press about how homeless street children in Havana are being killed by the cops, just like in "democratic" Latin America.
Click to expand...
The poor are already suffering and dying in Cuba
 
Statement from Cienfuegos Distro in Miami:
itsgoingdown.org

Cienfuegos Distro Statement on Recent Cuban Unrest

The following statement on the current wave of protests, clashes with police, and looting in Cuba is from Cienfuegos Distro based in so-called Miami, Florida. Originally posted to their Instagram. In this historic moment we stand with the Cuban people, El Pueblo, in defiance against the decrepit...
itsgoingdown.org itsgoingdown.org
In this historic moment we stand with the Cuban people, El Pueblo, in defiance against the decrepit Cuban state and it’s violence. This tin pot dictatorship is owned and controlled by an entrenched military leadership and party bureaucrats. Between the U.S. government’s economic blockade on Cuba and their corrupt government – the Cuban people have finally had enough.

The corrupt Cuban state has been running an authoritarian state capitalist system for far too long and have over played their hand. This police state, coupled with the frequent blackouts, lack of food and many basic goods, the low wages, high prices, and the recent spike in Covid cases and deaths have ignited a flame in the Cuban masses to finally stand up for themselves once again and revolt for a better and freer future.

This is the first major wave of popular revolt to be seen in decades. It is sweeping the island and reminding the dusty Stalinist bureaucrats that true power comes from the people. From the masses. From the working classes.

Real power and freedom for the Cuban working class will not come from foreign, and especially U.S. intervention. Anyone with the most basic understanding of Cuban history knows that. It will not come from international corporations coming to fleece the island for profit. Real power and freedom will not come from those fossils, the party bureaucrats, and their decaying and outmoded authoritarian state structures. Liberation, and the power to achieve it, will always flow from the bottom upwards. It flows from the working masses of the Cuban people and their revolutionary courage.

This one is close to our collective’s hearts. We all have Cuban family, we have friends and family on the island, the person writing this is a Cuban American. We are anti-capitalist AND anti-authoritarians. We will always stand with the oppressed and their struggle for liberation, no matter where in this world but especially when the flame of revolt is ignited back home. Cien fuegos más.

Por una humanidad libre!
Click to expand...

They also link to Cubanos Pa'lante, who are helping collect money for humanitarian/mutual aid efforts:

1626269214753.png

1626269243861.png
 
Count Cuckula said:
The poor are already suffering and dying in Cuba
Click to expand...

Idris mentioned homeless street children being tortured and exterminated - a common practice across capitalist 'democracies' in Latin America. Have you any evidence this practice exists in Cuba? I doubt it because there are no street children in Cuba. As the UN Committee on Children's Rights noted in its last country report on Cuba: 'There were no street children or economic exploitation of children in Cuba. The economic, commercial and financial blockade by the United States and the continuing policy of hostility toward Cuba were the most serious and negative barriers, which for more than 50 years had caused economic damage exceeding US 750 billion dollars.'

Providing its entire population with housing is one of the many gains of the Cuban revolution, alongside universal healthcare, the eradication of illiteracy, low infant morality rates etc. I know these things aren't a big deal to stuck-up, toffy-nosed cunts like you, but they are the difference between life and death in the third world. Things have gotten really tough in Cuba lately, due in large part to COVID-19 and the tightening of the USA's terrorist economic warfare against the country.
 
Anyway, I wouldn't get my hopes or fears up about this either way. The classic days of the colour revolution are behind us - just look at Belarus.
 
We can argue about how many of Cuba's woes are down to the US blockade and how many down to the regime. I'm not sure it's meaningful or possible to separate the two, though. The answer is 'both'.

Health and education gains are real and important. But I wouldn't too easily speak about accomplishments wrt infrastructure or things like housing. Much housing in Cuba is woefully inadequate, and downright dangerous to live in in many cases. Old Havana is in desperate need of repair - buildings fall down every year, killing whoever happens to be inside them at the time.

And that's the thing about the revolution having been so long ago. Yes, everyone has electricity now. But everyone in Jamaica now has electricity, when they didn't in 1959. It's not like no improvements could have been made without the Revolution.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
We can argue about how many of Cuba's woes are down to the US blockade and how many down to the regime. I'm not sure it's meaningful or possible to separate the two, though. The answer is 'both'.

Health and education gains are real and important. But I wouldn't too easily speak about accomplishments wrt infrastructure or things like housing. Much housing in Cuba is woefully inadequate, and downright dangerous to live in in many cases. Old Havana is in desperate need of repair - buildings fall down every year, killing whoever happens to be inside them at the time.

And that's the thing about the revolution having been so long ago. Yes, everyone has electricity now. But everyone in Jamaica now has electricity, when they didn't in 1959. It's not like no improvements could have been made without the Revolution.
Click to expand...

Of course much housing in Cuba is woefully inadequate - its a small, poor, economically and politically isolated island that has withstood over 60 years of attempts to invade, to overthrow and to blockade it out of existence by the most powerful imperialist empire (by orders of magnitude) the world has ever seen. But nonetheless it does have a much better housing situation than most of its neighbours. You mention Jamaica for example, which has over 2000 homeless people in a population of under 3 million.

hitmouse said:
Unless I'm really seriously missing something, I'm pretty confident that no-one on this thread supports the US sanctions.
Click to expand...

And nobody is saying that anyone does.
 
It's not that simple, though. Old Havana has needed attention for decades. Didn't stop Castro from sending young men off to die in a war in Angola that they knew virtually nothing about.

The blockade is of course an important part of the story. But it's not the whole story by any means.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It's not that simple, though. Old Havana has needed attention for decades. Didn't stop Castro from sending young men off to die in a war in Angola that they knew virtually nothing about.

The blockade is of course an important part of the story. But it's not the whole story by any means.
Click to expand...

Helping beat back apartheid fascism in Africa was pretty awesome tbh (and yes, before you mention it, I am aware of Arnaldo Ochoa etc.)

Just had a quick google of the housing situation in Old Havana and saw this BBC article pop up:

"It's difficult, because neither the government nor the people have the money to care for the buildings. In a way, we inherited a city we are not able to keep," Mr Coyula says, referring to Havana's once grand colonial-era architecture in particular.

But the government is now trying to stop the rot - literally.

For decades, Cuba subsidised all construction materials, but production slumped when state budgets became strained. Finding materials was difficult and an expensive black market emerged.

There were also tight restrictions on building work.

Now, Cuba has shifted tack.

It is allowing builders yards to sell materials at market prices, while offering state funds to help those home owners in most need. Hurricane victims are a priority but anyone on a low income and in what is considered "vulnerable" housing can apply.

"We used to subsidise materials now we're subsidising the individual," says Marbelis Velazquez, from Havana's provincial housing office.

"Not everyone is in the same situation, economically and the state clearly has to help those most in need," she says.
Click to expand...

www.bbc.co.uk

Cuba's crumbling buildings mean Havana housing shortage

Havana's skyline is beguiling with its old colonial buildings bathed in sunshine, but look closer and you will see the Cuban capital's housing stock is crumbling.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
 
Idris2002 said:
A big thing, that I don't think is properly appreciated, is that the pathway to change that would involve the CP elite converting themselves into born-again capitalists is not available in Cuba's case - because the old capitalist class is still biding its time over in Miami ready to move in once the tide finally turns.
Click to expand...

And specifically there’s the question of who property in Cuba belongs to. Are houses, shops, factories and land going to belong to their current owners or to the descendants of people who left for Miami sixty years ago? The only Cuban I’ve really met was a teacher when I was learning Spanish. From his point of view this was the central issue in finding a resolution between Cuba and the US - which surprised me but it makes sense if you stop and think about it. Exiles in Miami are going to be hoping to reclaim property their familes left behind and naturally the people now living or working in that property are going to be in fear of losing it. This must be a factor in ‘defending the revolution’ and all kinds of thinking really. I’ve no idea how this will play out when change does come.
 
Last edited:
Anyway, now's as good a time as any (technical difficulties wrt my online course) to share my Theory of Fidel - he was a nineteenth century character operating in the twentieth century, a man of Garibaldi's kind in a world of Stalinist/Rand Corporation Organization men.
 
Idris2002 said:
Anyway, now's as good a time as any (technical difficulties wrt my online course) to share my Theory of Fidel - he was a nineteenth century character operating in the twentieth century, a man of Garibaldi's kind in a world of Stalinist/Rand Corporation Organization men.
Click to expand...
I guess the problem here is similar to that of Robert Mugabe. As revolutionaries fighting to overthrow tyranny, both Castro and Mugabe earn lots of Garibaldi marks. But in terms of his legacy, Garibaldi has the good fortune that the last decades of his life didn't see him taking personal control over - and personalising - the regime he had helped to create.
 
zahir said:
And specifically there’s the question of who property in Cuba belongs to. Are houses, shops, factories and land going to belong to their current owners or to the descendants of people who left for Miami sixty years ago? The only Cuban I’ve really met was a teacher when I was learning Spanish. From his point of view this was the central issue in finding a resolution between Cuba and the US - which surprised me but it makes sense if you stop and think about it. Exiles in Miami are going to be hoping to reclaim property their familes left behind and naturally the people now living or working in that property are going to be in fear of losing it. This must be a factor in ‘defending the revolution’ and all kinds of thinking really. I’ve no idea how this will play out when change does come.
Click to expand...
This has been an issue for a long time and is a pivotal facets in the ongoing sanctions structure. Fear of exiled and corporate interests getting their hands back on billions of dollars worth of assets gave the castros support. Walk around Havana and see the big ole 50s Batista era properties now multi family dwellings . US Capitalism isn’t going to treat them well if it gets its way
 
not-bono-ever said:
This has been an issue for a long time and is a pivotal facts in the ongoing sanctions structure. Fear of exiled and corporate interests getting their hands back on billions of dollars worth of assets gave the castros support. Walk around Havana and see the big ole 50s Batista era properties now multi family dwellings . US Capitalism isn’t going to treat them well if it gets its way
Click to expand...
Very much so. It's one of the big reasons Cuba has been so stuck. It is both a regime that has survived for 62 years and is all-powerful at home, and at the same time an extremely fragile regime that feels like it could fall apart at any moment. And it has been like that for decades. That leads to a massive sense of inertia.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
You can literally see demonstrators holding 26th of July Movement flags!

Click to expand...

Tbf, I'd be entirely unsurprised if there were anti-government demonstrators holding 26th of July flags, I think you can be supportive of the gains of the revolution in the 1950s while also being critical of the regime's policies in 2021. I mean, so far in this thread I've linked to Cienfuegos Distro, and that Cuban Communists blog which has this as their header:
1626281692954.png
(anyone know who that is between Gramsci and Fidel, btw? I'm guessing maybe he'd be more recognisable if I was Cuban, maybe?)
Serge Forward said:
It's the old Leninist ploy though, "What? You're critical of the workers' state, the workers' cops with workers' riot sticks??? Then you must surely support the US, global capitalism, the fash, etc..."
Click to expand...
Also, anything bad that happens in the country and any dissent is stirred up from outside, but everything good that happens is 100% because of the government. A bit like liberals with their Russian hackers.
littlebabyjesus said:
I guess the problem here is similar to that of Robert Mugabe. As revolutionaries fighting to overthrow tyranny, both Castro and Mugabe earn lots of Garibaldi marks. But in terms of his legacy, Garibaldi has the good fortune that the last decades of his life didn't see him taking personal control over - and personalising - the regime he had helped to create.
Click to expand...
I suppose Che scores full Garibaldi there, although he never got a biscuit named after him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PTK
Anti-War Songs
2 3
Replies
62
Views
1K
hash tag
hash tag
hipipol
Conscripts fate in Imperialist Wars - The One constant over the decades
Replies
8
Views
395
A380
A380
PTK
Afghanistan: UK special forces 'killed 9 people in their beds'
Replies
24
Views
982
Silas Loom
Silas Loom
P
"An amazing year for rich people"
Replies
18
Views
699
stavros
S
N
Why do so-called American patriots flock to the most unpatriotic people?
2
Replies
58
Views
2K
Sue
S
Back
Top Bottom