Rochester & Strood by-election

[Louis MacNeice]

No but reactionary populist appeals to prejudices of all classes are a big problem to be dealt with, and only a positive alternative grounded in working class communities can deal with it.

So long as they get rid of the flags, the white vans and the Sun; will you be providing an inoculation service so that these backward elements can be cured?

Louis MacNeice

 

[articul8]

Prejudices exist in all classes - including elements of the w/c. Not that markers of class identity are markers of reactionary ideas.

 

[Pickman's model]

Prejudices exist in all classes - including elements of the w/c. Not that markers of class identity are markers of reactionary ideas.

what about markers of ruling class identity? surely they would be by definition reactionary?

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's because of the way this plays in England - Westminster is shot in terms of its cultural links to the populace, and this exacerbates it. The electorate has largely has itself to blame of course, but that's not the way they'll see it.

So the people have alienated themselves from Westminster, rather than vice versa?
I'd contend the opposite: That Westminster has, through the pursuit of neoliberal economic policy on both sides of both Houses, alienated the electorate, and that the use of methods of triangulation to shape policy, allied to viewing policy as a "vote-catcher" rather than a social tool, has reduced the need for politicians to pay any attention to the electorate to the minimum.

 

[butchersapron]

Prejudices exist in all classes - including elements of the w/c. Not that markers of class identity are markers of reactionary ideas.

Make your mind up articul8. And get those Celtic flags and irish flags off yourself.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Prejudices exist in all classes - including elements of the w/c. Not that markers of class identity are markers of reactionary ideas.

Just in Rochester at the moment...apparently. Please at least try to get your story straight.

Louis MacNeice

 

[cesare]

Prejudices exist in all classes - including elements of the w/c. Not that markers of class identity are markers of reactionary ideas.

You're doing it again.

 

[articul8]

Make your mind up articul8. And get those Celtic flags and irish flags off yourself.

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation of immigrants.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation if immigrants.

In that link you put up before it said he had put the flag up during the world cup and hadn't bothered to take it down. At what point did it stop signifying support for the England football team and start signifying the racism of the flag flyer? After the Uruguay game presumably.

 

[stethoscope]

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation of immigrants.

And thats what the bloke in Rochester was doing? Or is it that the framing has actually been made/reinforced by the likes of Thornberry? I seem to recall reading he wasn't even particularly political or interested in the election.

 

[articul8]

He is political enough to be happy to piss off ethnic minorities... And be used by the Sun to attack Labour

 

[ViolentPanda]

its only a matter of time until Phillip 'fred westalike' Hollobone takes the purple and reigns my town for farange

He was on R4 news t'other day for a sound-bite about something or other. He even sounds like a cat-strangler!

 

[cesare]

He is political enough to be happy to piss off ethnic minorities... And be used by the Sun to attack Labour

He was pissed off that some fucking MP took a photo of his home and van including its registration number.

 

[butchersapron]

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation of immigrants.

You don't even know what's really being discussed - nor did Thornberry - that's why it's been so revealing to those with eyes to see. And that includes Miliband. Imagine that, Miliband was more politically sussed than you, more tactically sussed than you, more in tune with what this idiocy meant in terms of his parties relationship with the w/c than you, and more honest about how widespread this cack is within your party than you.

And you're the red hot socialist.

 

[articul8]

Miliband has made a big error, totally unnecessary and counter-productive

 

[eatmorecheese]

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation of immigrants.

English flags have been displayed "exuberantly" in this country since Euro 96 or thereabouts, as far as I can tell. It'd be different seeing those flags in Islington, though.

Can't be bothered with this.

 

[Lo Siento.]

He is political enough to be happy to piss off ethnic minorities... And be used by the Sun to attack Labour

the bloke inside the house could've been a full-on Nazi and Thornberry would still be wrong for exactly the same reason.

 

[butchersapron]

Miliband has made a big error, totally unnecessary and counter-productive

Christ, i hope for labour's sake you're never involved in organising any electoral tactics. In fact, for their sake, i pray you never go out on the doorstep.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Its actually good for Labour she tweeted the picture, it has brought all this out into the open a few months before the GE, just the right length of time for the impetus not to be lost. What Labour need to do now is to bring other more credible MPs into the picture(if they have any)those that can talk the talk to those potential voters they need to listen to them. Farage can do this, so can Obama, Michael Foot could, Blair could & so could Enoch Powell, nothing to do with what politics the speaker has or even their ultimate success as a politician, its just the ability to deliver a good speech that holds the attention without listeners thinking, wtf? Who is this twat? What a weirdo.

& this good orator needs to spell out clearly policies with sums that all add up. One could argue good public speaking is useless if the policies can be taken apart & ridiculed but nonetheless the success of UKIP so far shows Farage by the ability to deliver a good speech has convinced his target potential voters to vote UKIP even if much of what he actually says is patently bollocks. Nu Labour did all that before the '97 GE. Blair talked the talk, the sums added up & they got a result. Who could do that now? Hard to say, perhaps Chuka Umunna, perhaps Andy Burnham? I don't know really but its what needs to happen. Those within the party including Articul8 must know this & they need to move on from the petty arguments over this specific incident & spell out policies clearly & concisely. If the combined brains of Labour high command cannot get this together in the next few months starting right now then they deserve to fail.

 

[agricola]

English flags have been displayed "exuberantly" in this country since Euro 96 or thereabouts, as far as I can tell. It'd be different seeing those flags in Islington, though.

Can't be bothered with this.

TBH in Islington they are known as "bandiera di Genova".

(edited to correct spelling)

 

[eatmorecheese]

TBH in Islington they are known as "bandieri di Genova".

 

[Belushi]

I still occasionally think perhaps I should rejoin Labour, then articul8's posts always remind why I left.

 

[articul8]

There has always been an element of w/c opinion hostile to Labour - who voted NF or for Thatcher or whatever. These people aren't going to be won and it would be stupid to try. We need to mobilise people who would if we gave a proper lead on class issues.

 

[stethoscope]

He was pissed off that some fucking MP took a photo of his home and van including its registration number.

Quite. Having seen his peace/privacy shattered by an MP typically throwing around entitlement and assuming him to be 'all sorts', and the resulting media scrum, and yet its boohoo the Labour Party is being attacked.

Besides, the quote I read, is hardly one of somebody with a strong political/racist ideology, more the sort of remark said when you're really peeved by something and you've suddenly got newspapers on your doorstep wanting a story.

The issue anyway is, as Articul8 lays bare, is Labour's utter detachment from, and attitude towards everyday people.

 

[butchersapron]

There has always been an element of w/c opinion hostile to Labour - who voted NF or for Thatcher or whatever. These people aren't going to be won and it would be stupid to try. We need to mobilise people who would if we gave a proper lead on class issues.

Excellent - when are you and lady thornberry going out to mark crosses on the doors of heretics? Are you going to provide an easy to follow manual or handbook of identifying these scum without talking or seeing them?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Irish flags aren't what's being discussed. English flags don't automatically denote racism. But racists are more likely to fly them exuberantly in a context where politicians have been calling for the repatriation of immigrants.

You could detect exuberance of the flag flying in Emily's tweeted photo...wow!

Louis MacNeice

 

[Lo Siento.]

There has always been an element of w/c opinion hostile to Labour - who voted NF or for Thatcher or whatever. These people aren't going to be won and it would be stupid to try. We need to mobilise people who would if we gave a proper lead on class issues.

Of course, because people's politics are that fucking simple.

 

[articul8]

Who the fuck are "everyday people" - are you Miliband in disguise? and that racist cunt can go fuck himself

 

[SaskiaJayne]

There has always been an element of w/c opinion hostile to Labour - who voted NF or for Thatcher or whatever. These people aren't going to be won and it would be stupid to try. We need to mobilise people who would if we gave a proper lead on class issues.

You(we)need somebody who can talk the talk & deliver the right(deliverable)policies. Potential Labour voters I know(if they could be persuaded to vote)are not interested in 'class issues' they just want ordinary things like a decent affordable place to live. Why cannot Labour deliver a large nationwide programme of council house building, paid for with the money that is about to be wasted on HS2?

 

[Coolfonz]

I haven't said any of this, although I don't think that Sun reading flag waving used car salesmen are the yardstick of working class opinion, that's true enough. The people in Labour who think we need to appeal to the most backwards section of w/c opinion are precisely those on the right who want to make concessions to UKIP on immigration etc rather than tackle big capital.

Who the flying fuck in Labour wants to "tackle big capital"? For crying out loud. What a fantasy.

"a positive alternative grounded in working class communities"

This is also bollocks. A year ago in Spain Podemos weren't even formed. They didn't need to be `grounded` in anything - the financial crisis did it for them - they just needed to be organised and not fucking gob on about "socialism" or "working class" or how clever they think they are or whether they do the recycling/eat organic food.

And not blow up kids in foreign adventure wars. That also helps.