Rich Bloke Kills Girlfriend ‘During Rough Sex’ - gets 3 years

[Pickman's model]

That would be heading towards some people's deaths are more severe than others.

sentences passed recognise that some deaths *are* more severe than others, for example if someone's killed by someone who went on to kill a copper i can guarantee now that the killer'd serve much more time for the copper's death than the non-cop.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What does this even mean? The "severity" of a death is always going to be subjective. For the person dying, their life is cut short.

Exactly, so what difference to anything could a victim's impact statement make?

 

[8ball]

If there is some mechanism through which the human impact of a murder could be conveyed to the court in the case of a victim with no friends or relatives to speak for them, I would welcome that as an addition.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think (in a legal system like ours, at least) the 'gravity of the crime' bit is meant to be handled by the prosecution, the judge and the court generally. I'm a bit wary of sentencing by popularity contest. A lot of women who are murdered have been victimised precisely because of being in vulnerable and often unsympathetic situations.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

sentences passed recognise that some deaths *are* more severe than others, for example if someone's killed by someone who went on to kill a copper i can guarantee now that the killer'd serve much more time for the copper's death than the non-cop.

Yeah, but it's not based on the suffering of the filth's family, more on the affront to society in killing said flat-footed fucker.

(AFAIK 30 is the starting point for porkicide.)

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, but it's not based on the suffering of the filth's family, more on the affront to society in killing said flat-footed fucker.

(AFAIK 30 is the starting point for porkicide.)

yeh. some deaths are treated as more severe than others. that's one example, others are available.

 

[wiskey]

I think the victim impact statement in this case would have been an opportunity for her family to say that she was more of a person than just someone into BDSM, to rehumanise her after the impersonality of a court case ... To say who she was and how brightly she shone.

They didn't get that opportunity, she is essentially just a victim.

 

[8ball]

I think the victim impact statement in this case would have been an opportunity for her family to say that she was more of a person than just someone into BDSM, to rehumanise her after the impersonality of a court case ... To say who she was and how brightly she shone.

They didn't get that opportunity, she is essentially just a victim.

Yeah, but that's kind of just an opportunity to partially address a failure, really, and what if she had no family?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I think the victim impact statement in this case would have been an opportunity for her family to say that she was more of a person than just someone into BDSM, to rehumanise her after the impersonality of a court case ... To say who she was and how brightly she shone.

They didn't get that opportunity, she is essentially just a victim.

As Athos explained, he got the right sentence for the crime of which he was convicted, a victim impact statement would make no difference to that. The fact that it is clear that he was charged with the wrong crime, or the CPS chose to accept a plea to the wrong crime seems to be the problem here. And yeah, maybe the CPS needs to be reminded that they are dealing with real people rather than statistics and targets.

 

[sojourner]

Seems like plenty of things went wrong here, but it seems like the CPS were the biggest fuck-ups.

I'm not 100% sure of what the function of a victim impact statement is tbh.
If it's to "humanise" the victim, I don't think that should be the responsibility of the family.

In my case, the person who tried to kill me was going to be given probation, it being an 'isolated incident', a 'first offence'. My statement resulted in him being given a custodial sentence.

 

[8ball]

In my case, the person who tried to kill me was going to be given probation, it being an 'isolated incident', a 'first offence'. My statement resulted in him being given a custodial sentence.

That's a better result, but it might have gone differently if you had been less articulate.
It seems like it is prone to delivering a lesser kind of justice to some people who are already disadvantaged.

 

[Combustible]

You can't acquiesce to being a victim of GBH.

That's what I can't understand about this case. Even if CPS were unsure about proving a causal link with her death, as ridiculous as that sounds given what he did to her, surely he would have no defence against GBH. In fact wasn't there an issue a while back of people saying that the UK had effectively outlawed BDSM because people cannot consent to receiving serious injuries.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

In my case, the person who tried to kill me was going to be given probation, it being an 'isolated incident', a 'first offence'. My statement resulted in him being given a custodial sentence.

You are (thankfully!) still alive, so are the victim who was able to state what effect the crime has had on you.


if you and I are both murdered, and the only people who can give a statement on your behalf are the local homeless shelter who said that whilst a habitual drunk you were quite nice company. Then my family turn up to state that I was a great dad, a multi-millionaire who gave to good causes, and will be missed by most of the South East of England; should that make the slightest difference to the severity of the sentence handed to the killers provided they killed us both in the same manner with the same motive?

 

[8ball]

if you and I are both murdered, and the only people who can give a statement on your behalf are the local homeless shelter who said that whilst a habitual drunk you were quite nice company. Then my family turn up to state that I was a great dad, a multi-millionaire who gave to good causes, and will be missed by most of the South East of England; should that make the slightest difference to the severity of the sentence handed to the killers provided they killed us both in the same manner with the same motive?

You can't help the fact that your family are massive liars.

 

[Athos]

As Athos explained, he got the right sentence for the crime of which he was convicted, a victim impact statement would make no difference to that. The fact that it is clear that he was charged with the wrong crime, or the CPS chose to accept a plea to the wrong crime seems to be the problem here. And yeah, maybe the CPS needs to be reminded that they are dealing with real people rather than statistics and targets.

Well, a victim impact statement might make a difference insofar as the sentence ought to reflect the harm caused by the crime, which can include the consequences for the victim's family. But, largely in cases where there's no claim for compensation and the victim doesn't wish to raise issues of discrimination, the real purpose is little more than therapeutic - allowing victims to feel heard.

 

[Sasaferrato]

“Whilst it is not a charge of murder, it is nonetheless an exceptionally serious offence. All sentencing options remain open. You should be prepared for a custodial sentence of some length.”

Judge appears to have changed his mind.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

“Whilst it is not a charge of murder, it is nonetheless an exceptionally serious offence. All sentencing options remain open. You should be prepared for a custodial sentence of some length.”

Judge appears to have changed his mind.

Well going by this, the judge has decided that this was manslaughter by gross negligence in the category with the lowest level of culpability. It's a very strange conviction. From my understanding, this particular category of manslaughter is normally reserved for workplace negligence. He failed in his duty of care by bludgeoning a person to death? Even accepting that this was manslaughter not murder, quoting a judge in that piece:

Manslaughter offences vary hugely – some cases are not far from being an accident, while others may be just short of murder

It seems clear which end of the scale this is. The fault here has to lie solely with the judge - he still had the power to impose a sentence all the way up to life if he had wanted to.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Well going by this, the judge has decided that this was manslaughter by gross negligence in the category with the lowest level of culpability. It's a very strange conviction. From my understanding, this particular category of manslaughter is normally reserved for workplace negligence. He failed in his duty of care by bludgeoning a person to death? Even accepting that this was manslaughter not murder, quoting a judge in that piece:



It seems clear which end of the scale this is. The fault here has to lie solely with the judge - he still had the power to impose a sentence all the way up to life if he had wanted to.

Yep, but chose not to.

I often think it is a good thing I'm not on the bench, especially if my back is playing up. I would have given him at least ten years, more likely fifteen. ( Especially when it seems the are barely inside nowadays when they are out again.)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep, but chose not to.

I often think it is a good thing I'm not on the bench, especially if my back is playing up. I would have given him at least ten years, more likely fifteen. ( Especially when it seems the are barely inside nowadays when they are out again.)

Well just going by the sentencing guidelines, he should have got 12 years. They are only guidelines, but still, that's rather different from 3. In this case, your bad back is probably about right.

For context, a landlord who forgot to get a gas safety check done and whose house subsequently blew up, killing the tenant, would be convicted of the same offence and get about the same sentence as this bloke. If it could be shown that the landlord had been asked by the tenant to get a safety check done and refused to do it, it would be a lot longer than that.

 

[Patteran]

Overkilling - a chilling new addition to the/my lexicon. Fuckin ell.

 

[trashpony]

Judge’s remarks.

I warn you, if you’ve felt that weeps and my posts make uncomfortable reading, this is utterly horrific. It’s made me feel quite nauseous.

R -v- John Broadhurst: sentencing remarks of Mr Justice Julian Knowles

Anyway, I don’t believe the account. Also, if she was that drunk, she was incapable of consent. Just because she’s dead, it doesn’t change that

 

[existentialist]

I killed her, but it as all her fault.



Men. Whose egos are so fragile and whose lack of control so terrifying.

Every last one of them.

 

[bellaozzydog]

While being strangled as she sat on him he bashed the back of her skull in with multiple blows from a pestle in self-defence, having luckily remembered this after initially having claimed he woke up to find her dead but had no idea what had happened.

Seems legit


Seriously depressing thread Shows how little things have changed and how deeply these attitudes from the judiciary and press are embedded.

It’s not “not changing” it seems like it’s getting fucking worse

 

[bellaozzydog]

They are overworked and under-funded. But, by the time the plea as accepted, the hard work had been done. I suspect it was more a reflection of their assessment of the chances of conviction.

The only bit of the justice system that actually works for anyone is the bit that the rich can buy in.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Judge’s remarks.

I warn you, if you’ve felt that weeps and my posts make uncomfortable reading, this is utterly horrific. It’s made me feel quite nauseous.

R -v- John Broadhurst: sentencing remarks of Mr Justice Julian Knowles

Anyway, I don’t believe the account. Also, if she was that drunk, she was incapable of consent. Just because she’s dead, it doesn’t change that

Pretty grim reading. What strikes me as a major contradiction in that is that she was both sober enough to consent to everything (despite her blood alcohol levels placing her towards the unconscious end of sobriety) yet inebriated enough to be responsible for some of her own injuries. How can it be both things simultaneously?

 

[Edie]

Pretty grim reading. What strikes me as a major contradiction in that is that she was both sober enough to consent to everything (despite her blood alcohol levels placing her towards the unconscious end of sobriety) yet inebriated enough to be responsible for some of her own injuries. How can it be both things simultaneously?

I find it very fucking convenient that he nipped out the room at the point she sustained a head injury with an orbital blow out fracture (that’s usually associated with a punch or a kick to the face).

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Well going by this, the judge has decided that this was manslaughter by gross negligence in the category with the lowest level of culpability. It's a very strange conviction. From my understanding, this particular category of manslaughter is normally reserved for workplace negligence. He failed in his duty of care by bludgeoning a person to death? Even accepting that this was manslaughter not murder, quoting a judge in that piece:



It seems clear which end of the scale this is. The fault here has to lie solely with the judge - he still had the power to impose a sentence all the way up to life if he had wanted to.

The CPS also share some of the blame. They chose to drop the murder and GBH charges.

He tortured his girlfriend to death and is going to jail because he *failed to call an ambulance * as she lay their dying from the beating and injuries he inflicted on her. He was not held liable *at all* for actually beating her to death (edit, correction: just reading the judgement and they are taken into account but they do not form the basis of the conviction).

It’s the weirdest and most infuriating outcome to a criminal trial in this country since that Saudi millionaire (starting to see a pattern) got acquitted of rape after 20 minutes of secret evidence was heard by the court. Or that investment banker who avoided jail after slashing a woman’s face open with a glass bottle because the judge didn’t want to be negatively impact his career. Or the hunters who avoided jail after breaking a hunt monitor’s neck because lady Dianna’s cousin put in a good word for them. Or... I could go on actually.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I find it very fucking convenient that he nipped out the room at the point she sustained a head injury with an orbital blow out fracture (that’s usually associated with a punch or a kick to the face).

Isn’t it just?

 

[Athos]

Well going by this, the judge has decided that this was manslaughter by gross negligence in the category with the lowest level of culpability.

No, he explicitly said it was in the medium category.

It's a very strange conviction. From my understanding, this particular category of manslaughter is normally reserved for workplace negligence. He failed in his duty of care by bludgeoning a person to death? Even accepting that this was manslaughter not murder, quoting a judge in that piece:

It seems clear which end of the scale this is. The fault here has to lie solely with the judge - he still had the power to impose a sentence all the way up to life if he had wanted to.

He was sentenced for what he pleaded to i.e. gross negligence manslaughter for failing to get Natalie any help - nothing to do with beating her. The judge couldn't sentence him for that. It was the CPS who accepted that plea. And, once that plea was accepted, the judge's hands were largely tied by the sentencing guidelines; he really didn't have the option to sentence him to life.

 

[8ball]

The only bit of the justice system that actually works for anyone is the bit that the rich can buy in.

Well, works for them.

To be fair, I've seen plenty of decent decisions.
This was far from one of them.

 

[8ball]

It’s not “not changing” it seems like it’s getting fucking worse

It's not actually getting worse from the stats. It's been this bad for a long time.