Remainers: When are you taking to the streets?

[Gramsci]

Globalisation - a project the EU holds at the heart of its manifesto. Perhaps you have no experience of skilled trades such as welding, joinery, engineering, mechanics, electricians...but I do...and the present pathetic excuse for education was leveraged by the ability to outsource skills from elsewhere. I even asked my local farmer how it would affect him and he told me he has never applied for EU funding, as a largely one man cow operation. I suspect, like many of us, this was a last ditch attempt to be heard. to use dissent and dissolution as a means of projecting an internal rage and misery out into a wider political realm...and the EU became just another barrier to overcome.

Leaving EU is not going to stop effects of globalisation. The Tories will still push through cuts and austerity.

For my Polish friends joining EU meant rejoining Europe after years of living under Russians and devastating experience of WW2. For all its faults they would not leave EU.

I would have wanted to stay in. After working with a lot of different Europeans in London(mainly from the East) I feel more European Union than before. I was for a reformed EU.

 

[Anju]

Tell you what, why not look into the past ten years in Greece and on your return there could be some interesting and informed discussion.

I realise that you feel angry and see the EU as having sabotaged a government who largely shared your ideologies. Sadly for the Greek people that government displayed the same inflexible naive abrasive style of communication as yourself. Then they shat themselves and agreed to a deal that has subjected their people to measures leading to poverty on a mass scale and shackled with crippling debt for years to come. Even the OECD wants further reforms and Greece has no choice because their government has no idea what to do despite all the big talk.

I saw the video of Nazi idiots fighting with anti fascists on channel 4 today. 2 groups of extremists flailing about like kids in the playground, confused and angry because you all voted together. Pathetic.

 

[Pickman's model]

I realise that you feel angry and see the EU as having sabotaged a government who largely shared your ideologies. Sadly for the Greek people that government displayed the same inflexible naive abrasive style of communication as yourself. Then they shat themselves and agreed to a deal that has subjected their people to measures leading to poverty on a mass scale and shackled with crippling debt for years to come. Even the OECD wants further reforms and Greece has no choice because their government has no idea what to do despite all the big talk.

I saw the video of Nazi idiots fighting with anti fascists on channel 4 today. 2 groups of extremists flailing about like kids in the playground, confused and angry because you all voted together. Pathetic.

I am an anarchist. There is no government in the world that largely shares my ideology.

I am sorry to find you come out with the auld anti-fascists are as bad as fascists bollocks. But it's no surprise.

 

[Casually Red]

Leaving EU is not going to stop effects of globalisation. The Tories will still push through cuts and austerity.

For my Polish friends joining EU meant rejoining Europe after years of living under Russians and devastating experience of WW2. For all its faults they would not leave EU.

I would have wanted to stay in. After working with a lot of different Europeans in London(mainly from the East) I feel more European Union than before. I was for a reformed EU.

The poles have voted in one of the most virulently anti immigrant, eu sceptic govts in Europe who's stances make farage look like tony benn. A number of its neighbouring governments are on the same track. Austrias on a hairs breadth from a far right take over and will be voting leave immediately should turkey get accession. Marine Le Pen will probably be French president soon. Anti immigration parties and euro scepticism are a la mode right across the eu . From France to Finland .
I know not of this enlightened eu of which you speak .

 

[Anju]

I am an anarchist. There is no government in the world that largely shares my ideology.

I am sorry to find you come out with the auld anti-fascists are as bad as fascists bollocks. But it's no surprise.

What is the point of being an anarchist?

Yes I believe that extreme views are generally harmful.

 

[redsquirrel]

Even the OECD wants further reforms and Greece has no choice because their government has no idea what to do despite all the big talk.

Even the OECD! Well who could argue with them.

Revolting.

 

[Pickman's model]

What is the point of being an anarchist?

Yes I believe that extreme views are generally harmful.

 

[Pickman's model]

What is the point of being an anarchist?

Among other things trying to get rid of the lunacy of a world in which money is more important than people and in which people's value is measured by their colour.

 

[Casually Red]

What is the point of being an anarchist?

Yes I believe that extreme views are generally harmful.

Unless its extreme pro banker , anti worker neo liberalism.

Mind you we do now live in an era were a " political moderate " is considered as someone who'd agree to bomb or invade an Arab country without much hesitation. As opposed to an anti war extremist . Double speak is totally real.

 

[DotCommunist]

What is the point of being an anarchist?

they hope for something better, some of them even worked out plans. Whats the point of being a non parliamentary socialist? things have to be better. They have to. Else its forever peons and forever masters. And these people we have in power now are beholden to traditions of great venality, shape entire philosophical arguments and ideologies to tell you why you are poor. I don't want to ruin the suprise here but: they say its our own fault. And stop having kids you selfish kid having bastards.etc

I'm going to quote this cos it awesome:

His life has been a continuous adventure: targeted by five international orders, including theCIA; he prepared the kidnapping of the Nazi Klaus Barbie in Bolivia; collaborated in the flight of the leader of the Black Panthers; interceded in the kidnapping of Javier Rupérez; mediated in the case of Albert Boadella; and worked with the Movimiento Ibérico de Liberación and later with the Groupes d'action révolutionnaire internationalistes. He always defended his work, saying "we are bricklayers, painters, electricians - we do not need the state for anything"; "if unemployment and the marginalization created revolutionaries, the governments would already have ended unemployment and the marginalization".[this quote needs a citation] Urtubia continues to live in Paris and is now retired.

 

[Gramsci]

The poles have voted in one of the most virulently anti immigrant, eu sceptic govts in Europe who's stances make farage look like tony benn. A number of its neighbouring governments are on the same track. Austrias on a hairs breadth from a far right take over and will be voting leave immediately should turkey get accession. Marine Le Pen will probably be French president soon. Anti immigration parties and euro scepticism are a la mode right across the eu . From France to Finland .
I know not of this enlightened eu of which you speak .

Do you know any Poles? The Poles I know abhor the present government in Poland.

Same goes for French friends re the far right in France.

 

[Anju]

Among other things trying to get rid of the lunacy of a world in which money is more important than people and in which people's value is measured by their colour.

Those are fantastic ambitions. I don't see it as possible as much as it would be a great way to live.

I have no interest in money or shiny things but almost every one I know does. Would an off the grid semi self sufficient community not be the best way to go for an anarchist.

 

[Anju]

they hope for something better, some of them even worked out plans. Whats the point of being a non parliamentary socialist? things have to be better. They have to. Else its forever peons and forever masters. And these people we have in power now are beholden to traditions of great venality, shape entire philosophical arguments and ideologies to tell you why you are poor. I don't want to ruin the suprise here but: they say its our own fault. And stop having kids you selfish kid having bastards.etc

Why not just ignore the government. Many people I know take no notice of what they are supposed to be or do. They live lives that are fun and free, obviously with some financial constraints.

 

[DotCommunist]

Many people I know take no notice of what they are supposed to be or do

fish with no word for water. Some people don't get to ignore the government.

 

[Casually Red]

Do you know any Poles? The Poles I know abhor the present government in Poland.

Same goes for French friends re the far right in France.

Ive worked in a factory full of them for the last ten years . My polish mates mostly support that party. A smaller minority don't. which is reflective of the polish electorate, pretty much . The majority of poles who elected them .

 

[Gramsci]

I realise that you feel angry and see the EU as having sabotaged a government who largely shared your ideologies. Sadly for the Greek people that government displayed the same inflexible naive abrasive style of communication as yourself. Then they shat themselves and agreed to a deal that has subjected their people to measures leading to poverty on a mass scale and shackled with crippling debt for years to come. Even the OECD wants further reforms and Greece has no choice because their government has no idea what to do despite all the big talk.

Pickman's model is right on EU(with IMF and ECB) shafting the Greece. And I supported staying in Europe.

The ex Greece finance minister is worth reading on this and a reformed EU. Vanis Varoufakis.

 

[redsquirrel]

While we're reforming the EU do you also favour the reformation of the World Bank and IMF?

 

[J Ed]

The word reform in context of the EU is a remarkably uncontested word.

 

[Gramsci]

Ive worked in a factory full of them for the last ten years . My polish mates mostly support that party. A smaller minority don't. which is reflective of the polish electorate, pretty much . The majority of poles who elected them .

Well the ones I know don't. One of them does not want to go back whilst the Law and Justice party are in power. But she also sees the Out vote here as a low for the Europe.

 

[Anju]

Unless its extreme pro banker , anti worker neo liberalism.

Mind you we do now live in an era were a " political moderate " is considered as someone who'd agree to bomb or invade an Arab country without much hesitation. As opposed to an anti war extremist . Double speak is totally real.

they hope for something better, some of them even worked out plans. Whats the point of being a non parliamentary socialist? things have to be better. They have to. Else its forever peons and forever masters. And these people we have in power now are beholden to traditions of great venality, shape entire philosophical arguments and ideologies to tell you why you are poor. I don't want to ruin the suprise here but: they say its our own fault. And stop having kids you selfish kid having bastards.etc

I'm going to quote this cos it awesome:

fish with no word for water. Some people don't get to ignore the government.

I understand the attraction of no government but see no way for it to be achieved.

I also have to say that you all seem pretty determined to be correct about how things are and how they should be, as if you have some kind of objective understanding of the world and anyone who doesn't agree is obviously being manipulated or forced into their own world view.

 

[Casually Red]

I understand the attraction of no government but see no way for it to be achieved.

I also have to say that you all seem pretty determined to be correct about how things are and how they should be, as if you have some kind of objective understanding of the world and anyone who doesn't agree is obviously being manipulated or forced into their own world view.

My view of the world is, that from experience, they rule the world. And if they can't manipulate you into voting how they want they'll just ignore your vote. A process I believe we may well see played out now in Britain.

 

[DotCommunist]

While we're reforming the EU do you also favour the reformation of the World Bank and IMF?

why stop there, we could reform the UN and maybe next time there is a massacre so large it clogs the rivers with dead the people armed and mandated to do so would operate as they are supposed to? then we can get some other shit going?

A new dawns a-comin'. Not.
was reading a bit of Machete Season earlier and still have my rage goggles on m8

 

[Anju]

Pickman's model is right on EU(with IMF and ECB) shafting the Greece. And I supported staying in Europe.

The ex Greece finance minister is worth reading on this and a reformed EU. Vanis Varoufakis.

They were also shafted by their government.

 

[Pickman's model]

They were also shafted by their government.

Yes, so you've said. Perhaps you could find out something new you could also repeat parrot fashion

 

[Gramsci]

The word reform in context of the EU is a remarkably uncontested word.

I have been reading Vanis Varoufakis. He is highly critical of how EU works. But argues for staying and pushing for a radical Europe.

 

[sim667]

I am an anarchist. There is no government in the world that largely shares my ideology.

I am sorry to find you come out with the auld anti-fascists are as bad as fascists bollocks. But it's no surprise.

This is something I've seen repeated over and over again. There was someone wittering on about fascist Trotskyite anarchists the other day.... People have some very weird distortions of what they think these individual things actually mean.

Edit. I'm referring to the the antifascist fascists comment

 

[Anju]

Yes, so you've said. Perhaps you could find out something new you could also repeat parrot fashion

I was going for scratched record.

 

[Gramsci]

They were also shafted by their government.

As much as I support staying in EU the way Greece was treated is a case that outers can use. The Greeks elected a left government and the IMF, EU, ECB used there power to destroy the will of the people.

It's a better case to use than the immigration one that was use in UK a lot.

 

[DotCommunist]

cba

 

[Anju]

This is something I've seen repeated over and over again. There was someone wittering on about fascist Trotskyite anarchists the other day.... People have some very weird distortions of what they think these individual things actually mean.

Edit. I'm referring to the the antifascist fascists comment

I was just expressing a view that extreme views are not really helpful. I see them as just reducing the chance of people coming to any consensus.