Racist Jamboree, Y'all Come Down!

[rachamim18]

(AP) April 9th, Various Bylines...

"Former President Jimmy Carter will meet the exiled leader of the militant Palestinian group HAMAS during a visit to Syria next week , senior HAMAS official said Thursday.

The Atlanta based Carter Center did not confirm the story."

www.macon.com/198/story/319849.html

 

[Belushi]

Jimmy Carter? as bad as Hitler!

 

[rachamim18]

Nifty, an ex American President whose family founded and run church (PLains Baptist) did not even allow blacks to clean the floor until halfway through his presidency and then only because of outstanding media pressure now finds himself on a moral crusade.

Writes a book with a misleading and inaccurate title (he claims that Israel offers some of the best living conditions for Arabs anywhere in the Middle East,"it is just in the Territories" where Apartheid like conditions exist" suuuuure), decries terrrorism in that samne book and then is off to meet the wizard in Damasucs.

What a hypocrite. Should have stuck to peanut farming, at least then he would make a worthwhile contribution to the world.

 

[Belushi]

meet the wizard in Damasucs

LOL

 

[Spion]

So he's meeting someone who has a desire to form a religio-ethnic state in Palestine? Could be worse. He could meet those who've actually done it, kicking out 750,000 people in the process.

It makes me laugh the whinging of Zionists about Hamas et al. They're a mirror image of each other, except only one of them has actually done the mass murder and rape and ethnic cleansing. Live by, die by it

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Nifty, an ex American President whose family founded and run church (PLains Baptist) did not even allow blacks to clean the floor until halfway through his presidency and then only because of outstanding media pressure now finds himself on a moral crusade.

Writes a book with a misleading and inaccurate title (he claims that Israel offers some of the best living conditions for Arabs anywhere in the Middle East,"it is just in the Territories" where Apartheid like conditions exist" suuuuure), decries terrrorism in that samne book and then is off to meet the wizard in Damasucs.

What a hypocrite. Should have stuck to peanut farming, at least then he would make a worthwhile contribution to the world.

I disagree Rach. I think that Carter was a president who could have made positive change to the USA. It was just events and circumstances that dragged him down.

I agree that life for Arab Israeli citizens is better and more free than in some other Arab governed states. Where I would take issue is over the OT's. Although its not totally a black and white situation I do feel that the actions of some settlers namely in Hebron for example are wrong and that the occupation of the West Bank is an ongoing disaster for both Israel and the Palestinians. The occupation is breeding violence on both sides.

I do feel queezy about Carter meeting the butchers of Hamas though. But I temper that view by realising that throughout history terrorists have mutated into statesmen and someone has to be the first to speak to them. What worries me is the religious nuttery of Hamas is an extra dimension that cannot be dealt with in the same way as other former terrorists like the ANC and Sinn Fein were.

 

[Andy the Don]

Yes how dare an ex-president talk to Hamas. How dare he realise that you do not make peace with your allies, but with your enemies. How dare Carter try & start a dialogue which may have the smallest chance of ending with security for Israel & a viable economic state for Palestine. He should just shut up & agree to the export guarantees, military aid & billion dollar loans.

 

[Belushi]

Wasnt it Carter who brokered the peace deal between Israel and Egypt in the seventies?

 

[bluestreak]

Peace, pffft. Peace is worth nothing in this life.

 

[Andy the Don]

Wasnt it Carter who brokered the peace deal between Israel and Egypt in the seventies?

Camp David Accord in 1979.

Resulted in Egypt being expelled from the Arab League & Sadat's assassination in 1982.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Yes how dare an ex-president talk to Hamas. How dare he realise that you do not make peace with your allies, but with your enemies. How dare Carter try & start a dialogue which may have the smallest chance of ending with security for Israel & a viable economic state for Palestine. He should just shut up & agree to the export guarantees, military aid & billion dollar loans.

Just thinking there may well be more to this than meets the eyes at first.

I hope that what this means is that Hamas is moving towards peace. Maybe just maybe Hamas is starting to realise that all will be served well by a just peace for both sides.

However, unless Hamas make public statements recognising Israels right to exist many people including many like me of a moderate persuasion may feel agrieved that Carter is hobnobbing with the murderers of Hamas.

 

[Belushi]

Peace, pffft. Peace is worth nothing in this life.

You'd soon change your mind if you lived in a war zone.

 

[Spion]

I do feel queezy about Carter meeting the butchers of Hamas though.

Butchers apprentices would be more accurate. The Israeli-Palestinian bodycount ratio is something like 1 Jew for every 40/50/100 Arabs depending on what recent period you count

 

[Spion]

However, unless Hamas make public statements recognising Israels right to exist many people including many like me of a moderate persuasion may feel agrieved that Carter is hobnobbing with the murderers of Hamas.

Why should it when Israel has never recognised Palestine's right to exist? In fact it has tried to erase it and its people, literally driving them into the sea in some cases

 

[Andy the Don]

However, unless Hamas make public statements recognising Israels right to exist many people including many like me of a moderate persuasion may feel agrieved that Carter is hobnobbing with the murderers of Hamas.

The IRA/Sinn Fein did not drop their claim of legitimate struggle for a united Ireland until the signing of the Good Friday agreement the final act of a long drawn out process. Should there ever be a lasting peace between Israel & Hamas, the Hamas officially recognising Israel will be one of the final processes, it will be acts on the ground which will count for more than official statements.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Why should it when Israel has never recognised Palestine's right to exist? In fact it has tried to erase it and its people, literally driving them into the sea in some cases

Israel has been working towards an acommodation with the Palestininans. It has not gone as far as I would like and has been very piecemeal though. I do not deny that there were some abuses that happened at the start of the state and the victims and descendants of these need to be financially compensated for.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The IRA/Sinn Fein did not drop their claim of legitimate struggle for a united Ireland until the signing of the Good Friday agreement the final act of a long drawn out process. Should there ever be a lasting peace between Israel & Hamas, the Hamas officially recognising Israel will be one of the final processes, it will be acts on the ground which will count for more than official statements.

Fair do's. Maybe the first act on the ground should be to stop pumelling civilians with rockets.

 

[rachamim18]

Spion: Two huge mistakes, as usual. First, Israel is a secular nation, not a religious state, certainly not a theocracy as HAMAS hopes to become.

Secondly, if you have read the HAMAS Charter, something I have practically begged you to do over the last 4 years, you would know that their gameplan is total annihilation of every Jew on Earth.

Israel as you have clearly forgotten, has ,ore than 2 million Arab Muslim CITIZENS with every right that Jewish Israelis have, and then some extra ones to boot.


As for kicking out "750,000" people in the process, I just reproved your inaccuracy (put nicely) just 2 days ago and here you go again. You just do not learn. Should I prove how false the number is again, the number actually being no more than 450,000? Less than half the number of Jewish Refugees from Arab lands who have never had a single UN mediator on their behalf? Yawn...

As for rape, you must be nuts. I have a thread up now , about an award winning dissertation done by the same people you claim to support, that claims rape has never been performed by the IDF on any Arabs. Make up your mind please.

 

[Belushi]

Fair do's. Maybe the first act on the ground should be to stop pumelling civilians with rockets.

And Hamas are just going to say the first act on the ground should be the evacuation of the illegal Israeli settlements.

 

[Spion]

Israel has been working towards an acommodation with the Palestininans.

Y'see, if it wasn't for the smokescreen weasel words you reproduce, any objective observer seeing the carving up of the West Bank, the theft of land, the ethnically-specific roads, the theft of water supplies, the air and sea blockade, the ghettoisation of Gaza and the deaths on such a huge scale would conclude that what's happening is nothing like an 'accommodation' and more like an ongoing occupation and genocide

 

[rachamim18]

Keyboard:On "Settlers," you neglect to take into account that until the HAMAS take over in Gaza last year, the "WB" was going to be ceded just like Gaza (in fact 15% was), The rest is schedualed to be ceded as well as long as stability enters the picture.

It is alot easier to fire Qassams from Bet'l'chem than Gaza.

On top of that you also have to take into account that there are several hundred Jewish Israelis, from the "WB," currently in prison for crimes aginst Arabs.

This also is not taking into account people like myself whose hometown happens to be Hebron and whose family was massacarred there after thousands of years of habitacion so that it is a an incredibly complex situation.

In the end though, Jews who break the law will kepp going to prison while Arabs run free, and places like Hebron, my family home, will be given in totality to the Arabs for the creation of their 33rd Nation.

There is no reason to decry the situation there I think.


I totally, totally agree with you that terrorists CAN change and make meaningful contributions. We have seen it as you said with the ANC, look at Mandela, look at Sein Feinn, even many Israelis of Likud's generation, Begin, Shamir,etc

However, Ma'sha'al is not repentant. HAMAS has not even reddited its Charter. It still aims to kill every Jew on the planet, literally, so I have to disagree about their meeting (although you did not support it per se). I feel it is wrong and Carter is pandering, and I dare say he is doing it out of egotism.

Want to be a humanitarian? Go back to Habitat for Humanity, go back to the vote monitoring...do NOT go and shake kands and drink tea with a mass murderer who aims to keep murdering. It is wrong.

 

[rachamim18]

Andy: HAMAS is in direct violation of International AND PA Law. With that in mind, Carter is not able to "make peace" woth the organisation. He is not going to be able to convince a man like Ma'sha'al who enjoys thorough support from his Syrian handlers and Iranian sponsors, with words of brotherhood and singing "Koom by ah."

In fact, Carter just might be violating US Law to boot although I have to check that.

Carter should NOT agree to loans or AId to ISrael, since that was your point, because Israel does not need it. It has a higher per capita than all its neighbours combined. It has the strongest non-petroleum economy in the mid-East.

It also has a formidable military industrial complex and exports plenty of weaponry on its own.

The thought that Israel depends on the US is a fantasy and besides the factm why would you bring it up? To suggest that Israel just lay back and shut up? Carter is not a sitting president. He does not write policy. He is nothing but an egotist blowhard who wants to see himself recorded for posterity.. More power to him but do it on his own dime.

When rockets begin falling on Plains, I will listen to his nonsense. Until then, let him go plant his crop and leave my part of the world alone.

Belushi: Yes, as the photo provided by Andy shows, he did broker Egpytian-Israeli peace at the Camp David Accords but that was when he was a sitting president, 3 decades ago. He has no power now other than to attract the media and that does nothing but create complications and cross wires...and at times even more dangerous results.

Not to mention his obvious bias as expressed in his non-sensical best selling paper weight.

 

[bluestreak]

You'd soon change your mind if you lived in a war zone.

Depends on whether I was winning or not I guess

 

[rachamim18]

Spion: "Why should HAMAS recognise Israel's Right to Exist when Israel has never recognised 'Palestine's' righ to Exist?": Are you serious? I do not want to be directly insulting but are you lucid? Israel has recognised it since 1919, and as recently as a speech last month by PM Olmert. Most recently by treaty in Oslo, care to continue?

HAMAS on the other hand has vowed to not only wipe Israel off of the map but to exterminate every Jew on Earth. Bit of a difference. Not limiting their "struggle" to geopolitical parameters but making it a genocidal crusade.

As for the ratio of deaths, again, this is soemthing you and I have talked of countless times. If anyone else wishes to discuss it I will offer some data, you should already be well aware of what is what.

 

[rachamim18]

Spion: "Literally driving them into the seas...": You mean that was the aim of Arabs, towards Jews and Israelis, right?

Keyboard: "Financial Compensation:" I believe you and i might have talked about this as well. If not, I apologise. Unlike the more than 2 billion US in Jewish assets seized in Arab nations in 47-49 that remain not even up for discussion, Israel agreed under UN Mediation in 1949, at the Armisitice, to release 10 million US dollars worth of assets at 1949 prices, with the final release taking place in 1953,

It also agreed to immediately accept 100,000 Arabs for return/repatriation as part of a multi tiered deal but the Arabs themselves refused to even consider it saying that if they did it would amount to tacit recognition of the Jewish State.

If you were not already aware I do not blame you because Arabs and their propagandsits never talk of this, it would put things in a slightly different light mfor most people.

 

[Spion]

HAMAS on the other hand has vowed to not only wipe Israel off of the map but to exterminate every Jew on Earth. Bit of a difference. Not limiting their "struggle" to geopolitical parameters but making it a genocidal crusade.

I couldn't give a shit. When slaves revolt against their tormentors they say terrible things. That shouldn't stop anyone with an ounce of humanity realising who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed in any situation.

And as I say, of Israel and Hamas only one of them has actually murdered, raped and expelled 750,000 people from their homes. Only one of them keeps the other in a ghetto and steals their land and their water and kills them on a daily basis.

Get real. You're out of touch with the sophistication of the audience you bombard with your garbage.

 

[rachamim18]

Belushi: "Evacuation of illegal Israeli 'Settlements'.":Again: Gaza was ceded in tot in 2005, and 15% of the "WB": along with it. The rest of the "WB" was supposed to be handed over as well until HAMAS took it upon itself to seize all of Gaza and use it as a personal launching pad.

Any "Settlement" currently in existence is allowed construction only for natural expansion as in a room for new children, or repairs, and even these are to be turned over in the end.

New "Settlements" are totally illegal and when people try to plant a flag on a hill or move a caravan onto it they are promptly arrested, sometimes with bloodshed.

 

[Spion]

Spion: "Literally driving them into the seas...": You mean that was the aim of Arabs, towards Jews and Israelis, right?

No, I mean Haifa, 22 April 1948, after the British pulled out and the Haganah and IZL/LHI drove its Arab population into the sea.

“During the morning [the Jews] were continually shooting down on all Arabs who moved both in Wadi Ninas and the Old City. This included completely indiscriminate and revolting machine gun fire, mortar fire and sniping on women and children sheltering in churches and attempting to get out . . . through the gates into the docks . . The 40 Royal Marine Commando who control the docks . . . sent the Arabs through in batches but there was considerable congestion outside the East Gate of hysterical Arab women and children and old people on whom the Jews opened up mercilessly with fire. Two [Royal Marine] officers were seriously wounded.” (Tactical HQ, 1st Coldstream Guards, ‘Battalion Sitrep’ 22 April 1948, 16.30hrs, PRO WO 261-297, cited in B Morris, the Birth of . . . p191)

 

[Andy the Don]

Andy: HAMAS is in direct violation of International AND PA Law. With that in mind, Carter is not able to "make peace" woth the organisation. He is not going to be able to convince a man like Ma'sha'al who enjoys thorough support from his Syrian handlers and Iranian sponsors, with words of brotherhood and singing "Koom by ah."

So what IRA/Sinn Fein were in direct violation of British law but still we talked & after a long convoluted process there was an understanding & eventually the Good Feiday agreement. Now I do realise that Hamas are not the IRA. The IRA were always a political organisation & Hamas are a fundamentalist religous organisation.

In fact, Carter just might be violating US Law to boot although I have to check that.

He most likely is & will be attacked by the conservative right in America, but that does not make his actions wrong. Nelson Mandela & the ANC still have to get special State Dept dispensation to enter America.

Carter should NOT agree to loans or AId to ISrael, since that was your point, because Israel does not need it. It has a higher per capita than all its neighbours combined. It has the strongest non-petroleum economy in the mid-East.

Oh good does mean that Israel will not be requiring any further American military or non-military economic aid, currently running at $7 million per day.

It also has a formidable military industrial complex and exports plenty of weaponry on its own.

Which brings up the question of why America continues to fund Israel.

The thought that Israel depends on the US is a fantasy and besides the factm why would you bring it up? To suggest that Israel just lay back and shut up? Carter is not a sitting president. He does not write policy. He is nothing but an egotist blowhard who wants to see himself recorded for posterity.. More power to him but do it on his own dime.

When rockets begin falling on Plains, I will listen to his nonsense. Until then, let him go plant his crop and leave my part of the world alone.

Rubbish without American economic aid the defense/security costs would bankrupt the state of Israel within 24 months.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Any "Settlement" currently in existence is allowed construction only for natural expansion as in a room for new children, or repairs, and even these are to be turned over in the end.

New "Settlements" are totally illegal and when people try to plant a flag on a hill or move a caravan onto it they are promptly arrested, sometimes with bloodshed.

lie

Ma'ale Adumim is still expanding in palestine and has nothing to do with natural expansion. It is a deliberate and purposeful attempt to expand E1 and prevent East Jerusalem from every being rightfully handed over to the palestinians ...

as well you know...