Prince Harry

[littlebabyjesus]

Misogynist bollocks.

Yes, that's the idea.

The whole fucking thing is bollocks.

 

[Tanya1982]

i am ot convinced by this. have googled your first spencer and
"On 3 April 1761, he was created Baron Spencer of Althorp .." and he got to be an earl the next year, from politcal favours,it no longer says 'of althop' but why do you think this is the measure of how far up the tree they are who said so?

I don’t think it, I know it. I don’t think it’s important, but it’s true. The Spencer’s are considered a higher class of earls, because they are simply Earls Spencer. They stand on their own name rather than relying on a geographical designation.

Example - Raine Spencer left the Earl of Dartmouth for Earl Spencer - she couldn’t get shot of the first fast enough, when the chance for a title without an of came up. Ditched the Dartmouth title without a backwards glance, despite her own children being born of that marriage. So proud of the higher Spencer title, she kept it, despite remarrying after his death. She remained known as ‘Countess Spencer’ which was her highest title - all three husbands were titled, two were British earls, but one was higher than the other.

 

[bimble]

The Spencer’s are considered a higher class of earls, because they are simply Earls Spencer. than relying on a geographical designation.

Considered by whom?

Baffling the whole thing.
Spencers are higher class than the heir to the throne then, because they're not 'of wales'.
I'm the 2nd generation of clueless immigrants and every now and then when i get too jaded its good to be reminded of how nuts this place is.

 

[Epona]

Considered by whom?

Baffling the whole thing.
Spencers are higher class than the heir to the throne then, because they're not 'of wales'.
I'm the 2nd generation of clueless immigrants and every now and then when i get too jaded its good to be reminded of how nuts this place is.

Poor peasant-descended native (well at least since the 10th Century) here and just as fucking boggled by it.

 

[ouirdeaux]

I'd like to see a bit more evidence of this pre-eminence of non-geographical designations than one poster's say-so. Particularly as there does seem to be a geographical designation in this case.

 

[andysays]

i'm always surprised by how few urbs have read alan clark's diaries

Did you inherit your copy, or did you buy it for yourself?

 

[bimble]

who has got a copy of debretts i know one of you has, how's that organised is it by status or just alphabetical.

 

[Tanya1982]

Considered by whom?

Baffling the whole thing.
Spencers are higher class than the heir to the throne then, because they're not 'of wales'.
I'm the 2nd generation of clueless immigrants and every now and then when i get too jaded its good to be reminded of how nuts this place is.

No, they are the highest social category of earls. They don’t literally outrank the rest in a line up, but they socially outrank them among their own kind. They aren’t higher than dukes of or princes of - the of isn't considered lesser there because the title itself is high enough - but they are higher than earls of. It’s not really meant to make the sense you’re looking for. It’s just that it happens to be so. If you want to get even deeper, an 11th Earl is higher (within their own circles) than a 3rd Earl. The newer the title, the less generations it’s passed through, the less prestigious the rest of the aristos consider it to be. They would rather their daughter married an 11th Earl than a mere 3rd Earl, and they’d all rather she married the simple Earl without the of.

You’re looking for sense where it doesn't exist.

 

[bimble]

No, they are the highest category of earls. They aren’t higher than dukes of or princes of. They are higher than earls of. It’s not really meant to make the sense you’re looking for. It’s just that it happens to be so.

Then this

The Spencers (aka Diana's lot) are/ were far more aristocratic family than the royals.

can't be true as the spencers are lowly earls, which is a bronze medal situation?

 

[Tanya1982]

I'd like to see a bit more evidence of this pre-eminence of non-geographical designations than one poster's say-so. Particularly as there does seem to be a geographical designation in this case.

Then look it up. Don’t take my word for it. It doesn’t really matter. If you’re interested then find out, if you aren’t then don’t - it’s of no real world consequence. Btw, Earl Spencer is not a geographical title - the only geographical link is Viscount Althorp - the title the heir uses, which is geographical. I missed half of EastEnders on this shite.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As long as the blade falls within the same month I couldn't care less in which order they receive a kiss from Madame Guillotine.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Then look it up. Don’t take my word for it. It doesn’t really matter. If you’re interested then find out, if you aren’t then don’t - it’s of no real world consequence. Btw, Earl Spencer is not a geographical title - the only geographical link is Viscount Althorp - the title the heir uses, which is geographical. I missed half of EastEnders on this shite.

Is Danny of Dwyer still presumed dead?

 

[Spymaster]

If you want to get even deeper, an 11th Earl is higher (within their own circles) than a 3rd Earl. The newer the title, the less generations it’s passed through, the less prestigious the rest of the aristos consider it to be. They would rather their daughter married an 11th Earl than a mere 3rd Earl, and they’d all rather she married the simple Earl without the of.

But how do Earl's get to outrank Kings and Queens by anyone's standards?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Don’t know about the Spencers, but in Spain they always used to say when the late Duquesa de Alba was alive that she had so many aristocratic titles (or perhaps one title but very high ranking, not sure how the aristocratic hierarchy really works), if she meet The Queen, it is the latter who ought to be curtsying to the former, in theory at least.

I suspect it’s bollocks but I have seen that claim made in the Spanish media so often, I kind of wonder…

Consider Germany.


Baden
Bayern
Braunschweig
Bremen
Hamburg
Hannover
Helgoland*
Lubeck

Etc etc etc. There must be very few Germans that are far away from the aristocracy.

Helgoland (Heligoland) is an island, it had its own postal administration, but was not a state such as Bayern.

On an aside, in stamp collecting, the stamps are automatically regarded as forgeries, well reprints, but unauthorised reprints.

Demark ceded the island to Britain, Britain then ceded it to Germany. Note the dual currency indicators.

At the point when Britain ceded it, the postmaster fled, and took the printing plates with him. By repair and wear, it is possible to know if the reprints are the first printing, Hamburg, or the second, Berlin, printing. I have a few, but the value doesn't make it worthwhile plating them.

 

[Epona]

As long as the blade falls within the same month I couldn't care less in which order they receive a kiss from Madame Guillotine.

Was just about to post something like it doesn't make any difference whether they have an "of" in their title when they are on the gallows.

 

[Aladdin]

"The House was founded in the 15th century by Henry Spencer (died c. 1478), from whom all members descend. "

They seem to go back a long way

Then this


can't be true as the spencers are lowly earls, which is a bronze medal situation?

Well...yes if the title is all...
but...ya see the current crop of royals descended basically from Farmer George who popped over from what is now called Germany-ish...cos the good old royals couldnt find a new king who wasn't a Catholic And went searching for a protestant. Closest one being a farmer called George over in mid Europe.

 

[Tanya1982]

Then this


can't be true as the spencers are lowly earls, which is a bronze medal situation?

Is Danny of Dwyer still presumed dead?

Yes. He’ll probably return from his watery grave when ratings fall further. Tonight, I was watching for the delectable Ravi, who features prominently right now. And I missed much of him by defending myself against the charge that I have led some poor person up the garden path about earldoms. I’ll probably have to watch it again now. He’s really handsome.

 

[bimble]

As long as the blade falls within the same month I couldn't care less in which order they receive a kiss from Madame Guillotine.

Not ever going to happen is it, those europeans who knew how to build guilotines died many generations ago and on this island we are still obsessed with the whole mad system to the extent that harry's book is the most important publishing phenomenon of all time on this our stupid backwards island.

 

[Epona]

Not ever going to happen is it, those europeans who knew how to build guilotines died many generations ago and on this island we are still obsessed with the whole mad system to the extent that harry's book is the most important publishing phenomenon of all time on this our stupid backwards island.

Bollocks, we've lopped heads off before, it can happen again.

 

[Tanya1982]

"The House was founded in the 15th century by Henry Spencer (died c. 1478), from whom all members descend. "

They seem to go back a long way

Well...yes if the title is all...
but...ya see the current crop of royals descended basically from Farmer George who popped over from what is now called Germany-ish...cos the good old royals couldnt find a new king who wasn't a Catholic And went searching for a protestant. Closest one being a farmer called George over in mid Europe.

Not quite. It’s cherry picking history. George I himself was the son of Sophia, the granddaughter of King James. They were in Germany (and what became the Czech Republic) for a couple of generations - that’s it, and only because the British monarch had married off his daughter to the Elector. They were promptly exiled from Prague, and ended up in the German states for less than a century. The male line was run out of town (as far as Britain went) while the female line was in Hanover to replace it - but they both came from the same British Stuart king in exactly the same way - from his testicles. It’s just that daughters marry in and change their names (and in this case, their religion). It’s not the case that some random German aristos were found in the Yellow Pages. They were next in line after the male line was barred for religious reasons.

 

[Aladdin]

But how do Earl's get to outrank Kings and Queens by anyone's standards?

Its a social thing.
Amongst the toffs.

 

[bimble]

Bollocks, we've lopped heads off before, it can happen again.

oh yeah that revolution was great how long did it last again.

 

[frogwoman]

Yes. Whoever it was a couple of pages ago who said the royals are looked down on by some sections of the aristocracy was right. They’re seen as a bit vulgar, tasteless, suburban, uncultured. The Spencer’s in particular are considered higher than many families, level with ducal ones, because their title doesn’t have an ‘of’ designation. They aren’t Earls of somewhere, they are simply Earls of their own name (earls of are considered lesser) - and they descend from illegitimate royal Stuart lines - ‘the problem with Charles and Diana’s marriage was that Diana married beneath herself’ was the joke. However, the Windsors themselves are also descended directly from the Stuarts, which people forget in the enthusiasm to dismiss them as Germans. Anyway, this is a weird and unimportant diversion. Who really wants to examine the competing social levels within the aristocracy?

Yeah also because in some respects the royals are said to be just 'glorified civil servants' with all the ribbons being cut etc

 

[frogwoman]

What is a Marchioness then? (Rose Hanbury, who is alleged to be involved in the pegging thing with William is one)

 

[Tanya1982]

Not ever going to happen is it, those europeans who knew how to build guilotines died many generations ago and on this island we are still obsessed with the whole mad system to the extent that harry's book is the most important publishing phenomenon of all time on this our stupid backwards island.

The amount of evil that this government has managed to hide under this deluge of shite is a tragedy. People literally seem to think that how a teenager lost his virginity is of more importance than whether they will end up gasping their last waiting for an ambulance that won’t come. The Tories must be breathing the deepest sighs of relief.

 

[Tanya1982]

What is a Marchioness then? (Rose Hanbury, who is alleged to be involved in the pegging thing with William is one)

Higher than a countess, lower than a duchess.

 

[frogwoman]

Higher than a countess, lower than a duchess.

So is she posher than William then? I guess not?

 

[Spymaster]

Its a social thing.
Amongst the toffs.

Silly cunts.

 

[Aladdin]

Not quite. It’s cherry picking history. George I himself was the son of Sophia, the granddaughter of King James. They were in Germany (and what became the Czech Republic) for a couple of generations - that’s it, and only because the British monarch had married off his daughter to the Elector. They were promptly exiled from Prague, and ended up in the German states for less than a century.

Weren't there heirs closer to home?
There were...you know.

They chose George because he was protestant. His royal connection being through his mother which was enough to get him the job as King of England.

 

[T & P]

Consider Germany.


Baden
Bayern
Braunschweig
Bremen
Hamburg
Hannover
Helgoland*
Lubeck

Etc etc etc. There must be very few Germans that are far away from the aristocracy.

Helgoland (Heligoland) is an island, it had its own postal administration, but was not a state such as Bayern.

On an aside, in stamp collecting, the stamps are automatically regarded as forgeries, well reprints, but unauthorised reprints.

Demark ceded the island to Britain, Britain then ceded it to Germany. Note the dual currency indicators.

At the point when Britain ceded it, the postmaster fled, and took the printing plates with him. By repair and wear, it is possible to know if the reprints are the first printing, Hamburg, or the second, Berlin, printing. I have a few, but the value doesn't make it worthwhile plating them.

It all feels like a deranged game of Top Trumps to me, tbh. ‘Your Dukedom might outrank my Earldom, but I have three more Viscount titles than you, so kneel before me, pleb!’