Potential effect of Scottish Independence on the rest of the Common Travel Area

[Border Reiver]

Why? Seriously, I'm really not interested.

You accuse me of being a returner. With zero evidence.

 

[JimW]

Will ye no come back again?

 

[Pickman's model]

Did not happen with Ireland in 1948. Any Irish person born before 1948 is still eligible for British citizenship. See Terry Wogan.

can the dead apply for UK nationality?

 

[JimW]

can the dead apply for UK nationality?

Current policy is modelled on the life deficient as model citizen.

 

[Border Reiver]

Well, they certainly do now.

And Rump UK/England depends on Scotland for more than just trade. Forward airbase. Somewhere to retire it's nuclear weapons. Possibly water and power in the future. Two way street.

 

[Sue]

You accuse me of being a returner. With zero evidence.

Well your posting style is...unusual for a newbie. Most new posters don't go round dishing out ignores like sweeties, for example.

 

[Border Reiver]

can the dead apply for UK nationality?

73 years upwards.

 

[mauvais]

This is one of the things that amuses me. Scotland is currently part of the Union. Discussion of how Scotland is now misses the point of what it is pro independence people want. Things to be different.

I mean, it's a good point, but I was thinking more about how our top quality English decision making destined much of your EU-bound economy to rot in the back of a truck before saying 'well most of your stuff goes to us anyway'.

 

[kebabking]

This is one of the things that amuses me. Scotland is currently part of the Union. Discussion of how Scotland is now misses the point of what it is pro independence people want. Things to be different.

I'd be interested to see the economic argument suggesting it makes more sense for an engineering company in Glasgow, or a fruit company in Lanark to export to Rotterdam, Dieppe, Copenhagen, or Riga than Carlisle, Newcastle, or Manchester...

None of my arguments suggest that Scotland couldn't be a successful independent country, merely that the idea that an indy Scotland would be deeply immeshed in Europe, while almost cut off from rUK are as utterly batshit as the howling brexit shit-monkeys who claim that the UK can cut itself off from Europe and do better with the ZUS, Australia, Singapore and Japan. Geography matters.

 

[Border Reiver]

Well your posting style is...unusual for a newbie. Most new posters don't go round dishing out ignores like sweeties, for example.

I have been on discussion sites since the very early days. I have a certain style and a thick skin.

 

[Border Reiver]

I'd be interested to see the economic argument suggesting it makes more sense for an engineering company in Glasgow, or a fruit company in Lanark to export to Rotterdam, Dieppe, Copenhagen, or Riga than Carlisle, Newcastle, or Manchester...

None of my arguments suggest that Scotland couldn't be a successful independent country, merely that the idea that an indy Scotland would be deeply immeshed in Europe, while almost cut off from rUK are as utterly batshit as the howling brexit shit-monkeys who claim that the UK can cut itself off from Europe and do better with the ZUS, Australia, Singapore and Japan. Geography matters.

Yes EU membership may be a longer term goal. EFTA beckons.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd be interested to see the economic argument suggesting it makes more sense for an engineering company in Glasgow, or a fruit company in Lanark to export to Rotterdam, Dieppe, Copenhagen, or Riga than Carlisle, Newcastle, or Manchester...

None of my arguments suggest that Scotland couldn't be a successful independent country, merely that the idea that an indy Scotland would be deeply immeshed in Europe, while almost cut off from rUK are as utterly batshit as the howling brexit shit-monkeys who claim that the UK can cut itself off from Europe and do better with the ZUS, Australia, Singapore and Japan. Geography matters.

I mean, I wouldn’t use how Scotland is now in the Union as a measure of how it would be outside the Union. But I’m really not interested in any hypothetical argument beyond that.

 

[kebabking]

Did not happen with Ireland in 1948. Any Irish person born before 1948 is still eligible for British citizenship. See Terry Wogan.

How could one identify a "Scot". Why would a unionist Scot living in Glasgow lose their citizenship but not a Scot living in the USA? There is no way to remove British citizenship except for individual cause.

I suggest you give more thought to your arguments in future.

I think you've failed to grasp something rather important about these 'rights'. They are not God given, set in stone for negotiating parties to work their agreements around, they are things mutually agreed by both parties when both parties want them.

If either UK government, or the Irish government, had not wanted the CTA or the citizenship rights they wouldn't have happened. A risk/Scotland CTA might well happen, but only if both parties want it - and if not, it won't.

 

[Aladdin]

Well your posting style is...unusual for a newbie. Most new posters don't go round dishing out ignores like sweeties, for example.

If we all shout "cunt" at Border Reiver do you think they'll ignore everyone and end up talking to themselves?



Oh .. hang on...happening already.

 

[Border Reiver]

I think you've failed to grasp something rather important about these 'rights'. They are not God given, set in stone for negotiating parties to work their agreements around, they are things mutually agreed by both parties when both parties want them.

If either UK government, or the Irish government, had not wanted the CTA or the citizenship rights they wouldn't have happened. A risk/Scotland CTA might well happen, but only if both parties want it - and if not, it won't.

How would individual decisions made? Who would have their British passports removed? On what grounds? Residence? Birthplace? Length of residence? What about Scots abroad or in the Rump UK?

For instance I have lived here two decades but was born in England. My children at University were born in England but have lived here since pre school and consider themselves Scottish.

Does Michael Gove have to apply for English residence?

Try thinking it through. I have.

 

[Border Reiver]

I think you've failed to grasp something rather important about these 'rights'. They are not God given, set in stone for negotiating parties to work their agreements around, they are things mutually agreed by both parties when both parties want them.

If either UK government, or the Irish government, had not wanted the CTA or the citizenship rights they wouldn't have happened. A risk/Scotland CTA might well happen, but only if both parties want it - and if not, it won't.

Would it not be rather strange for an EU citizen resident in Scotland (guaranteed residence in the UK under Brexit) had more rights than a Scottish unionist living in Scotland?

 

[Sue]

Try thinking it through. I have.

See Border Reiver, this kind of thing is what puts people's backs up -- your seeming belief that you and you alone have thought about things and your dismissal of everyone else and their views without bothering to even find out what they are. It's a very strange thing to do on a discussion board. It might be worth shutting up for a bit and having a read through some of the existing threads. Would let you get a bit of a feel for things and maybe help you to play nicely with the other posters.

 

[Border Reiver]

See Border Reiver, this kind of thing is what puts people's backs up -- your seeming belief that you and you alone have thought about things and your dismissal of everyone else and their views without bothering to even find out what they are. It's a very strange thing to do on a discussion board. It might be worth shutting up for a bit and having a read through some of the existing threads. Would let you get a bit of a feel for things and maybe help you to play nicely with the other posters.

Thank you for your advice. I will post as I wish. Every board resents new posters.

 

[danny la rouge]

Would it not be rather strange for an EU citizen resident in Scotland (guaranteed residence in the UK under Brecht) had more rights than a Scottish unionist living in Scotland?

It really makes no difference what the Scottish resident voted in indyref2. They could even abstain. Their status under any treaty will be based on residency. Similarly the rights of an EU citizen in Scotland will depend on residency and treaties.

As an example, some countries have extradition treaties with each other and some don’t. It’s all down to bureaucratic arrangements and has nothing at all to do with universal “fairness”.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Thank you for your advice. I will post as I wish. Every board resents new posters arrogance pricks.

C4U

 

[Sue]

Thank you for your advice. I will post as I wish. Every board resents new posters.

I'm sure you will. People don't resent new posters. They do tend to think people who turn up and pontificate pompously while putting anyone who challenges them on ignore are twats but hey... .

 

[Pickman's model]

Would it not be rather strange for an EU citizen resident in Scotland (guaranteed residence in the UK under Brexit) had more rights than a Scottish unionist living in Scotland?

I think you may be a word short of a sentence

 

[brogdale]

I have been on discussion sites since the very early days. I have a certain style and a thick skin.

So thick that half of active P&P participants are on ignore!

 

[kebabking]

Would it not be rather strange for an EU citizen resident in Scotland (guaranteed residence in the UK under Brecht) had more rights than a Scottish unionist living in Scotland?

The rights of a Scottish unionist - or Scottish anything - within Scotland would be a matter for the government of Scotland. Any rights outside of they would be a matter for negotiation between the government of Scotland and any other government it wished to enter into agreement with.

I'm English, my eldest was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland, her mum was born in England but has lived most of her life in Scotland. I lived in Scotland for more than a decade, I went to university in Scotland - I'm fully aware of the complexities of the familial relationships within Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland (north and south) - but new arrangements will inevitably be a consequence of an indy Scotland, and new arrangements tend to leave some disappointed...

 

[Border Reiver]

I'm sure you will. People don't resent new posters. They do tend to think people who turn up and pontificate pompously while putting anyone who challenges them on ignore are twats but hey... .

Onto ignore for abuse. Goodbye.

 

[Sue]

Onto ignore for abuse. Goodbye.

I was starting to feel left out. I do wonder though if Border Reiver's abuse-ometer requires a recalibration, otherwise this will really never work.

 

[danny la rouge]

I’m going to take Sugar Kane ’s advice.

Hey, Border Reiver , you’re a cunt.

 

[Sue]

I’m going to take Sugar Kane ’s advice.

Hey, Border Reiver , you’re a cunt.

A bit late to the ignore party. Just saying.

 

[Border Reiver]

The rights of a Scottish unionist - or Scottish anything - within Scotland would be a matter for the government of Scotland. Any rights outside of they would be a matter for negotiation between the government of Scotland and any other government it wished to enter into agreement with.

I'm English, my eldest was born in Scotland and lives in Scotland, her mum was born in England but has lived most of her life in Scotland. I lived in Scotland for more than a decade, I went to university in Scotland - I'm fully aware of the complexities of the familial relationships within Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland (north and south) - but new arrangements will inevitably be a consequence of an indy Scotland, and new arrangements tend to leave some disappointed...

How could legislation in a separate state (Scotland) affect rights of residence given by birth as a British citizen. It was not law that allowed persons born in Ireland having and retaining British citizenship including residence. It was the law as written and interpreted by the courts. Legislation would be necessary to remove citizenship. The UK is party to a treaty requiring it to not remove citizenship from persons if that would strip them of nationality.

 

[danny la rouge]

A bit late to the ignore party. Just saying.

I’m the least cool person ever. You’d know if you met me.