Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes

[weltweit]

Sorry I got things confused - I meant Russell Brand has been diagnosed with bipolar.

Oh, well, that perhaps explains his hyper-ness (Brand's) when talking and why I get alarmed when I see him.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry I got things confused - I meant Russell Brand has been diagnosed with bipolar.

David Icke - well I can't find any diagnosis but has described "hearing voices" from back in 1991 onwards. A lot of people think he is mentally ill but it doesn't really matter - someone's ideas can stand or fall on their own merits. Maybe he has come up with all his shit due to schizophrenia, maybe he is just so far up his own arse he can't find the way out, maybe he is cynically pandering to a specific market to make money or maybe he has a nasty 'semi-hidden' neo-fascist political agenda - but whichever one it is his ideas are a crock of shit any way you look at them.

Great idea for Brand to repeatedly and publicly associate himself with them then.

 

[weepiper]

I am really fucking unimpressed that a number of people I thought were quite sensible are prepared to totally set aside his nasty power-trip stuff over several women because it's Russell, he's lovely really, he's just misunderstood, can't you just stop being so negative about him? No, I can't. He's a cunt, and I'm going to call a cunt a cunt when I see one.

 

[Steel Icarus]

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

 

[classicdish]

Do you think he got the first from reading Kuhn's long winded rather complex treatise or through Icke's repeated used of the phrase?

From the same wikipedia article: "Since the 1960s, the term has also been used in numerous non-scientific contexts to describe a profound change in a fundamental model or perception of events, even though Kuhn himself restricted the use of the term to the hard sciences." There is nothing specifically "conspiracy theorist" or 'Ickian' about the term 'paradigm shift'.

As for the second, no marxist beyond the crudest sort of idiot has believed any such thing for 100 years.

I asked "is it any more 'conspiracy-like' than the Marxist concept of False Consciousness"? You obviously think Brand is wrong but you haven't given any quotes or reasons to think he is a 'conspiracy theorist'.

 

[classicdish]

...I posted a laughable quote from it that directly related to this thread and discussions therein. You then mentioned lizards and the Illuminati for some reason...

They were both mentioned (humourously) in the video clip. You probably didn't even watch more than the first 20 seconds did you? Seems like you are the one who doesn't have a clue after all.

 

[butchersapron]

From the same wikipedia article: "Since the 1960s, the term has also been used in numerous non-scientific contexts to describe a profound change in a fundamental model or perception of events, even though Kuhn himself restricted the use of the term to the hard sciences." There is nothing specifically "conspiracy theorist" or 'Ickian' about the term 'paradigm shift'.
I asked "is it any more 'conspiracy-like' than the Marxist concept of False Consciousness"? You obviously think Brand is wrong but you haven't given any quotes or reasons to think he is a 'conspiracy theorist'.

There is when it's use is Icke derived. As it is in this case.

I know that you asked that - i pointed out that the question is outdated nonsense, made redundant by a paradigm shift. Let me ask you, do you think he is conspiracy theory free given his long standing (and now evidenced for you many times) relationship with Icke and conspiracy theories?

 

[classicdish]

Has anyone backlash tmed the brand backlash yet?

More gibberish?

 

[butchersapron]

They were both mentioned (humourously) in the video clip. You probably didn't even watch more than the first 20 seconds did you? Seems like you are the one who doesn't have a clue after all.

Of course i didn't, i watched it until the quote i used came up then i asked you about it.

 

[butchersapron]

More gibberish?

No, a comment on recuperation. Keep up.

 

[classicdish]

Yes, i like icke.

No, a throw-away remark like that doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist. Especially when there is plenty of more detailed things he has said to look at and quote.

And here is the problem, people like you are now going to always use him to make any debate centre around conspiracy stuff - to try and make conspiracy stuff out to just be mainstream questioning. If you're not from that perspective, then you need to sharpen up both your research and your thinking. because these conspiracy theorists are going to walk all over you otherwise.

No I haven't made the debate centre around conspiracy stuff - other people have dragged that into this thread as a criticism of Brand. I just don't buy it. Nothing in the details of what he has said sounds like conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory stuff is a load of shite, I don't accept that it is just 'mainstream' and I have not said it is. What Russell Brand has been saying however isn't 'conspiracy theory stuff'.

 

[butchersapron]

So a person with long association with conspiracy loons and conspiracy theories says something choc full of classic conspiracy tropes but because he doesn't openly and formally say here is the conspiracy loon bit you think there is therefore no loon derivation. You utter mug.

 

[butchersapron]

No, a throw-away remark like that doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist. Especially when there is plenty of more detailed things he has said to look at and quote.

In what way does the existence of him saying other non-conspiracy stuff mean that everything he says is conspiracy free? What sort of logic is this?

 

[butchersapron]

It's marvelous that w/c is now whittled down to accent isn't it? Esp nice to see our two class friends adopt this nonsense.

 

[killer b]

hey, you should come over to facebook, we've got radical feminists lining up to defend him over there!

 

[treelover]

in the mean time its fucking news night and the new statesman, does anyone actually watch or read that shit? apart from trots and poeople off here nobody on my facebook is mentioning it?

usually, but this time its everywhere, social media, global broadcast media, probably a 48 hour phenomenon, though already people are discussing setting up groups based on his ideas

 

[butchersapron]

hey, you should come over to facebook, we've got radical feminists lining up to defend him over there!

Thing is, he doesn't need defending - he just needs putting in proper informed context and i don't get why classic dish is so opposed to this. I've just been told of one horrible 'defence' by an ex-poster from here who i have a lot of time for (this is on facebook, so you may have seen it).

 

[classicdish]

So a person with long association with conspiracy loons and conspiracy theories says something choc full of classic conspiracy tropes but because he doesn't openly and formally say here is the conspiracy loon bit you think there is therefore no loon derivation. You utter mug.

So what are these "classic conspiracy tropes" you are talking about?

Can you give me some quotes or even just paraphrase what he said? A link to an article? Something?

 

[treelover]

if tommy robinson had a celebrity backer who laid into paxman on newsnight, however naivethe person was, and had a new statesman job and called for a revolution then i doubt trots etc would be retweeting his shit, really don't see how this is different quite frankly

Robison is so anti left/communist its bizarre, he was on RT a few days ago, going on about the left in Europe,

btw, its clear he sees a role in the global anti-jihad movement if at the more 'moderate(and lucrative) end.

 

[treelover]

I'm sure there's tons of people who make the same points with a lot more eloquence but they aren't being interviewed by Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight and having the link to the interview shared around on social media

Apparently, RB has 7 million followers on twitter where he is now furiously posting political stuff, links, quoting Shelley, etc.

 

[butchersapron]

So what are these "classic conspiracy tropes" you are talking about?

Can you give me some quotes or even just paraphrase what he said? A link to an article? Something?

Have you read the mainfesto from the new statesman? Have you watched the various vids posted on this thread and the previous one? The long supportive radio interviews with icke? I shall ask again, do you see no conspiracy thought derived ideas in his views?

 

[classicdish]

In what way does the existence of him saying other non-conspiracy stuff mean that everything he says is conspiracy free? What sort of logic is this?

Because, 'you mug', saying "I like Icke" doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist, and you seem completely unable to find any actual quotes from his several lengthy interviews and articles where he gioes into far more detail about what he believes.

You are just sitting here repeating yourself over and over with no evidence to back up anything you are saying. What kind of logic is that?

You really are a waste of time aren't you?

 

[butchersapron]

Apparently, RB has 7 million followers on twitter where he is now furiously posting political stuff, links, quoting Shelley, etc.

Furiously posting on twitter. Marvelous. Did you bother to look btw - because he isn't.

 

[butchersapron]

Because, 'you mug', saying "I like Icke" doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist, and you seem completely unable to find any actual quotes from his several lengthy interviews and articles where he gioes into far more detail about what he believes.

You are just sitting here repeating yourself over and over with no evidence to back up anything you are saying. What kind of logic is that?

You really are a waste of time aren't you?

A man steeped in conspiracy thought, publicly associating with famous conspiracy loons, openly promoting conspiracy thought miraculously managed to write long winded wooly 'revolution in consciousness ' piece that literally mirrors the views of the conspiracy loons without any conspiracy loon influence. How naive are you? Close your eyes and all will be nice cd. Just close your eyes.

 

[killer b]

Thing is, he doesn't need defending - he just needs putting in proper informed context and i don't get why classic dish is so opposed to this. I've just been told of one horrible 'defence' by an ex-poster from here who i have a lot of time for (this is on facebook, so you may have seen it).

probably. i may be arguing with them about it right now. i should probably take the kids to the park instead tbh.

 

[weepiper]

probably. i may be arguing with them about it right now. i should probably take the kids to the park instead tbh.

I've given up on that one. Still surprised at it though.

 

[butchersapron]

Because, 'you mug', saying "I like Icke" doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist, and you seem completely unable to find any actual quotes from his several lengthy interviews and articles where he gioes into far more detail about what he believes.

You are just sitting here repeating yourself over and over with no evidence to back up anything you are saying. What kind of logic is that?

You really are a waste of time aren't you?

O i get it how it workds now: I like brand and what he says. I don't like conspiracy theories and that shit. Therefore what Brand says has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Because I like brand and what he says and don't like conspiracy theories and that shit

 

[classicdish]

Have you read the mainfesto from the new statesman? Have you watched the various vids posted on this thread and the previous one? The long supportive radio interviews with icke? I shall ask again, do you see no conspiracy thought derived ideas in his views?

Yes I have read his article in the New Statesman, I have listened to both the Youtubes where Brand interviews Icke and also the one where Brand was interviewed by Jones and the one frogwoman posted.

In the ones with Icke he lets Icke talk about his books and theories, but he doesn't actually say how much he agrees with. He has said elsewhere that he doesn't believe in Ickes lizards, illuminati or big conspiracy so what does that actually leave out of Icke's stuff?

In the ones where Brand is being interviewed he has said stuff much along the lines he did with Paxman - that the world is currently being run in the interests of the rich and powerful, by governments, big business and money with a complaint media. He has said that this 'paradigm' needs to change - in favour of one that is in the interest of people, especially the poorest and least powerful, and the natural environment. He also sees 'spirituality' as being an important part of this, by which he means not being selfish and excessively materialist.

So no, I don't see which part of his views are derived from conspiracy theories, and I am still waiting for you to actually back up what you are claiming.

 

[killer b]

O i get it how it workds now: I like brand and what he says. I don't like conspiracy theories and that shit. Therefore what Brand says has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Because I like brand and what he says and don't like conspiracy theories and that shit

This seems to be the argument. Message with no mind to the medium.

 

[classicdish]

...piece that literally mirrors the views of the conspiracy loons...

Mirrors? care to actually back that up rather than simply repeat the claim endlessly?