butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why did you bring no one talking about lizards into it? Have look at who talked about lizards. Was this your honeymoon suite as well? Maybe there are lizards, better check. For Lizards.
Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes
- Thread starter lt35
- Start date
classicdish
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. Like I said, all I can find online is that one statement. Saying "hope to be in on it" kind of suggests that he wasn't really setting it up or definitely involved. So far I've only found Icke on Brand's radio show from 2008 radio show and his BrandX TV show this year. Any more I am missing?
classicdish
Well-Known Member
No sorry, still get what you are talking about. I literally don't understand what you have just posted. Can anyone else help me out here?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
classicdish
Well-Known Member
I saw lots of results referring to the same small number of things - ie two interviews. Also Icke posts lots of links to Brand's stuff and that appears as well plus when people on the Icke forums post about Brand.I just googled 'Brand & Icke' - there's loads of it
Although Brand says he 'likes' a lot of what Icke has written, he has also said he doesn't believe in the lizard stuff or the illuminati stuff and seems sceptical about any coordinated 'worldwide conspiracy', so what exactly does that leave from Icke's stuff?
Although Brand does talk about 'spirituality' and 'consciousness' etc. I can't quite see what he is saying that is the same as Icke. I understand that people (eg frogwoman) hate Icke due to anti-semitism etc but I can't really see how this directly applies to anything Brand has come out with.
ska invita
back on the other side
this is exactly the way i remember it from when this subject came up last time, the connection was a weak one. Happy to be proved wrong on that, but there's already been a long thread on this topic and I dont remember anything particularly damning being posted on that. Maybe i missed it.
ive never heard RB say anything conspiraloony.
And yeah Brands spirituality is based on him necking loads of psychedelics in the early 90s and getting into eastern religious philosophies a bit... as did a lot of people at the time.
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classicdish
Well-Known Member
I've just listened to this 27 minute youtube of Brand being interviewed by Alex Jones/Infowars. I understand why people could object to him actually going on the programme in the first place, however...
...I didn't hear anything said by Brand that was 'conspiracy-theory' type stuff or nonsensical. He actually says at the end that he is very influenced by socialism and marxism rather than libertarianism, and the whole way through he is saying that the dominant narratives of government, big business, money and the media need to be challenged - that seems to be what he means by a new consciousness and spirituality etc. - and replaced with narratives that look after people (above all the poorest and least powerful) and the planet.
...I didn't hear anything said by Brand that was 'conspiracy-theory' type stuff or nonsensical. He actually says at the end that he is very influenced by socialism and marxism rather than libertarianism, and the whole way through he is saying that the dominant narratives of government, big business, money and the media need to be challenged - that seems to be what he means by a new consciousness and spirituality etc. - and replaced with narratives that look after people (above all the poorest and least powerful) and the planet.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
He did? Not heard that before, any links on this?
tbh my objection is that he has any connection to these people (
)at all. going on infowars, saying he likes some of ickes ideas, whatever, does help legitimise them, even if he's critical of their more outre pronouncements.
i don't think it necessarily means brand himself is beyond the pale, or that his recent interventions can't be useful. but i think it does mean we need to look quite carefully at what he's saying: and his language in both the article and the interview is full of the language of the conspiracy nut - about waking up, paradigm shifts and the like. which makes me a little uneasy.
)at all. going on infowars, saying he likes some of ickes ideas, whatever, does help legitimise them, even if he's critical of their more outre pronouncements. i don't think it necessarily means brand himself is beyond the pale, or that his recent interventions can't be useful. but i think it does mean we need to look quite carefully at what he's saying: and his language in both the article and the interview is full of the language of the conspiracy nut - about waking up, paradigm shifts and the like. which makes me a little uneasy.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Does Icke have MH issues? I had no idea.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
'Paradigm shift' is a very mainstream term from the philosophy of science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift
As for 'waking up' - is it any more 'conspiracy-like' than the Marxist concept of False Consciousness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consciousness ?
Brand keeps saying the dominant narratives of government, big business, money and the media need to be overthrown. How is this any more a 'conspiracy theory' than what socialists/communists/anarchists etc say?
classicdish
Well-Known Member
Apparently "In a low-key admission at the end of the book, he says he was finally diagnosed with bipolar disorder" source
<EDIT: sorry got this wrong - it's Russell Brand who has a bipolar diagnosis, not David Icke>
FWIW other people named on that list who have links to politics include:
Abbie Hoffman,
Jesse Jackson, Jr.
Patrick J. Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln
Friedrich Nietzsche
Michael Costa
Neil Cole
Alastair Campbell
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh, Ok. thanks for that .. I don't know much about Icke. I have bipolar but I don't believe in Lizards
I am not sure about Alistair Campbell, I know he had what he described as a breakdown but I have never heard him remark on it other than as that - a nervous breakdown, I never heard him say it was bipolar.
eta: of course the very best people do have bipolar !!
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
tbh my objection is that he has any connection to these people (
i don't think it necessarily means brand himself is beyond the pale, or that his recent interventions can't be useful. but i think it does mean we need to look quite carefully at what he's saying: and his language in both the article and the interview is full of the language of the conspiracy nut - about waking up, paradigm shifts and the like. which makes me a little uneasy.
Think the association thing is a fair point.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
You say "we need to look quite carefully at what he's saying".
So can you point anything specific he has said that puts him into the category of 'conspiracy theorist' or similar?
Well, I'm not sure if he is a conspiracy theorist. But he's happy to associate with famously anti-semitic conspiracy theorists, and uses language which is common in the conspiracy theorist milieu. that's enough for me to treat anything he says with a certain amount of suspicion.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
He describes himself as 'a depressive' but here he says "my novel, All In The Mind, is based on my experiences of depression and psychosis" and he has described how he went 'manic' during a breakdown at one point.
In this article he describes the episode.
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh, ok ... he is certainly clear evidence, if any was needed, that people with mental health issues can often make excellent recoveries and cope with jobs of a significant nature.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
There is an alternative explanation to this - one I'm not entirely convinced of but worth considering. Brand is quite deliberately filching some of the language and approach of the conspiraloons and using them to promote left wing ideas. Given that for an awful lot of younger people, those are often the main sorts of 'radical' political ideas they are exposed to, perhaps it's not a bad idea. Certainly Brand's article manages to energetically push the need to change without using all the usual tired far left jargon and god it feels like that's been a long time coming. And maybe he did dabble with conspiraloonery / saw it as a bit of a laugh and has now seen the light?
I do share everyone's frustrations that the media only allow these sorts of views to be presented by a well connected multi millionaire etc... but anything that pushes debate leftwards has to be a positive - he could be creating some space for others to step into in the future.
I do share everyone's frustrations that the media only allow these sorts of views to be presented by a well connected multi millionaire etc... but anything that pushes debate leftwards has to be a positive - he could be creating some space for others to step into in the future.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Do you think he got the first from reading Kuhn's long winded rather complex treatise or through Icke's repeated used of the phrase?
As for the second, no marxist beyond the crudest sort of idiot has believed any such thing for 100 years. In fact, they've developed a whole host of reasons for why such thinking is bollocks.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is all very simple. Which is lucky for you.
Frogwoman posted a video. You asked if she had a reson for doing so. I posted a laughable quote from it that directly related to this thread and discussions therein. You then mentioned lizards and the Illuminati for some reason. You didn't respond to the political idiocy that i brought up from Brand and it maybe being among the reasons why frogwoman posted it. You went on about Lizards.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Has anyone backlash tmed the brand backlash yet?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, i like icke.
And here is the problem, people like you are now going to always use him to make any debate centre around conspiracy stuff - to try and make conspiracy stuff out to just be mainstream questioning. If you're not from that perspective, then you need to sharpen up both your research and your thinking. because these conspiracy theorists are going to walk all over you otherwise.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Can you point to him specifically saying here is a load of millionaire hippy shit?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
btw, alan sugar, voice of the w/c - because he used to not be a very rich man. He shares our concerns.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
Sorry I got things confused - I meant Russell Brand has been diagnosed with bipolar.Oh, Ok. thanks for that .. I don't know much about Icke. I have bipolar but I don't believe in Lizards
David Icke - well I can't find any diagnosis but has described "hearing voices" from back in 1991 onwards. A lot of people think he is mentally ill but it doesn't really matter - someone's ideas can stand or fall on their own merits. Maybe he has come up with all his shit due to schizophrenia, maybe he is just so far up his own arse he can't find the way out, maybe he is cynically pandering to a specific market to make money or maybe he has a nasty 'semi-hidden' neo-fascist political agenda - but whichever one it is his ideas are a crock of shit any way you look at them.
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