Paxo v Brand starts in 5 minutes
- Thread starter lt35
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weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I can believe it, I've seen it posted elsewhere with 'haw haw he really puts her in her place doesn't he' comments
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
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ska invita
back on the other side
you wont find me defending it. welweit brought it up earlier and i agree, i think he has mental health issues, he's hyper manic (not a technical term i dont think), and comes across as barely in control of his life. thats proved by all his endless exploits, all well documented.
I know you dont watch much tv, but ive watched him a lot over the years: early stand up, big brothers little brother, a terrible own show he had after that, more stand up, being interviewed here and there, all kinds of bits and pieces - in about 50% of those cases me and ms invita would look at each other and wince, not because he said or did something outrageous, but because we both thought here's someone who needs therapy and is out of control. via freinds ive got some experience with what manic episodes are like but he's on a different level.
The fact this all goes down well in the media is a poisoned chalice, it allows him the space to manically galavant around and be rewarded for it. His drug addiction and rehab for sex addiction may seem like a bit of trivial media titilation from a distance, but my impression is that he is very unhinged and out of control. When i watched that clip you refer to - which some people seemed to find hilarious - my reaction was much like ive set out - shock at seeing him having a heavily manic episode and acting out of control.
Supposedly one of the things that helps you to keep mania somewhat under control is a regular sleep pattern, early mornings, exercise and crucially not too much stimulation. Flying around the world and doing hi-pressure TV is the exact opposite of that.
So yeah, im not qualified to say it, but my impression is its a mental health issue with him. Does that excuse his behaviour? Thats another question...at least to me it explains it.
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ska invita
back on the other side
...and lets say that what ive posted above about his mental health is accurate - how should we living in a media-mad age respond? What are the options?
I think I can relate to the life he's lived, and i think i can relate to his mental state, and based on that I genuinely feel sorry for him and hope he can get his shit together - to me it looks painful. I dont hold him up as a paragon of virtue, as a pure and prefect human who has all the answers and whose life is a model for us all to follow, I see a flawed guy from essex, depressed as a teen, whose growing mania has meant that the entertainment industry has enabled him to live an insane life, and the intensity of that experience is making him experience some truths about reality as he goes, insights from which he often throws around at will. He's not the messiah hes a very naughty boy, seems apt.
I think I can relate to the life he's lived, and i think i can relate to his mental state, and based on that I genuinely feel sorry for him and hope he can get his shit together - to me it looks painful. I dont hold him up as a paragon of virtue, as a pure and prefect human who has all the answers and whose life is a model for us all to follow, I see a flawed guy from essex, depressed as a teen, whose growing mania has meant that the entertainment industry has enabled him to live an insane life, and the intensity of that experience is making him experience some truths about reality as he goes, insights from which he often throws around at will. He's not the messiah hes a very naughty boy, seems apt.
Superdupastupor
fun to funky
ska invita hypo-mania is the term. Sub-threshold of full blown manic episodes so still in touch with reality but maybe making illogical choices ect.
ska invita
back on the other side
cheers, i'll read up on wiki
about it - need to go and do some stuff now. Curious if other people agree with the above.
Superdupastupor
fun to funky
read the first para on the wiki then picture Brand ......dead on.cheers, i'll read up on wiki
ska invita
back on the other side
1st para
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania
Hypomania (literally, "below mania") is a mood state characterized by persistent and pervasive elevated (euphoric) or irritable mood, as well as thoughts and behaviors that are consistent with such a mood state. It is most often associated with the bipolar spectrum. Many who are in a hypomanic state are extremely energetic, talkative, confident, and assertive. They may have a flight of ideas and feel creative. Many people also experience signature hypersexuality. While hypomania often generates productivity and creativity, it can become troublesome if the subject engages in risky behaviors. It is generally less severe than full-blown mania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania
Hypomania (literally, "below mania") is a mood state characterized by persistent and pervasive elevated (euphoric) or irritable mood, as well as thoughts and behaviors that are consistent with such a mood state. It is most often associated with the bipolar spectrum. Many who are in a hypomanic state are extremely energetic, talkative, confident, and assertive. They may have a flight of ideas and feel creative. Many people also experience signature hypersexuality. While hypomania often generates productivity and creativity, it can become troublesome if the subject engages in risky behaviors. It is generally less severe than full-blown mania.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
That seems a good description of Brand's persona.
andysays
Love and solidarity
This isn't hugely important, but LP is listed as one of a number of Contributing Editors, which seems to have misled many into what her role at the New Statesman actually is. It's largely an honorific title, and has nothing to do with actually editing the magazine in any meaningful sense.
According to wiki:
A contributing editor is a newspaper or magazine job title that varies in responsibilities. Most often, a contributing editor is a freelancer who has proven ability and readership draw. The contributing editor regularly contributes articles to the publication but does not actually edit articles. At smaller magazines, the title may imply a staff member with regular writing responsibility and some editorial duties.
Apart from questioning the bit about proven ability, I think that sums up her position pretty well.
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
Paxman's halcyon days. He's been trading off that clip ever since!
classicdish
Well-Known Member
The vast majority of the 170 or so comments under that Huffington Post article seem to reackon the presenters managed to piss him off by trivialising his body and looks (his chest/hair etc), his clothing ('kinky boots'), making a joke about mental illness (his biography describes his bipolar diagnosis), getting his name wrong (calling him 'Willy Brandt'), mocking of his accent, repeatedly calling him 'he' when he was sat in front of them, asking him 'can we just get 30 seconds of it [his show] now' etc. and generally being rude/stupid/useless. Maybe what goes round comes round? True he's 'rude' in making a smutty remark but 'sexually harassing'?
Whichever way we want to see it, Mika Brzezinski did end up apologising for not knowing who he was and how the interview went and said that Brand was a 'good sport' about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/mika-brzezinski-russell-brand_n_3478090.html
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Yes sexually fucking harassing you total idiot. Next.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What do the comments have to do with it? What's your response cd? What goes round comes round? Are you 12? That it's not even noticed is the point. So saying you didn't notice it is...what?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
ska invita
back on the other side
whats your response to someone registering high on the hypomania-bipolar spectrum and acting out the symptoms of that condition?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What response can i give? What are you after? A prescription?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Even if they do/are, it doesn't make any difference to how I perceive his ideas. They're still his ideas. People with bipolar =/= sexist, for example.
Edit: This (not specifically you, generally some of the Brandwagon stuff) sounds like a variation of the SWP excuses for Delta ie focusing on the "good" of the party and sweeping under the carpet anything that inconveniently gets in the way.
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
Just got onto this thread, and read first two pages, but I cant read further as I am not taking it in (no diagnosis of ADHD but I find it extremely difficult to keep my attention on one thing for more than a few minutes, so please excuse me for missing out the other 13 pages.
I've never really 'trusted' Russell Brand, seems like the sort of person who would not take kindly to not getting his own way, even though i have never met him.
I thought he was super quick in the interview and really agreed with all he said, but, I read this blog shortly after, and it also makes great sense.
Basically it's making out that Brand is a bit of a shill.
I've never really 'trusted' Russell Brand, seems like the sort of person who would not take kindly to not getting his own way, even though i have never met him.
I thought he was super quick in the interview and really agreed with all he said, but, I read this blog shortly after, and it also makes great sense.
Basically it's making out that Brand is a bit of a shill.
classicdish
Well-Known Member
ska invita
re. the hypomania - he has stated in his biography that he has been diagnosed with bipolar (manic depression) and also in various interviews:
In the past Brand was diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and bipolar disorder. But the camped-up, live-wire performer an audience sees is not necessarily replicated in private, he says. "Outside of performing I'm not a particularly confident person. I'm shy, awkward, nervous, gauche."
Really? "Yeah, really. My confidence is for what I know that I'm good at. I've been sculpted by failure and by time. You see me doing my job. You know, obviously I am different when I am chatting to my mum. Or playing with my cat. People are multi-faceted, aren't they?" (Interview 2006)
One of the doctors at the Residential Treatment Centre for Sexual Addiction thought he was bipolar (what used to be called manic depressive). Had that diagnosis ever come up before?
"'Three times, at school, at drama school and then 'im. I'm aware of an oscillation but I've spent most of my adult life on drugs. It is hard to diagnose what it is, whether it is an inherent or inveterate chemical imbalance. I don't know. It wasn't self-inflicted as a child. I still felt volatile inside then. Anyway, the down times are a necessary correlation of the up times. With friends and people I know well there will be moments where I get uppity and show-offy, but most of the time, I'll be sitting watching and listening quietly. The performance isn't all there is – that would be unbearable.'" (Interview 2007)
You were bulimic and into self-harm as teenager. Have you ever been diagnosed with any mental illnesses?
"Yes, depression and manic depression and more latterly, bipolar. Attention deficit disorder, hyperactivity. It's difficult to know which of those diagnoses are correct because most of the time I was very young and on drugs." (Interview 2010)
However apparently he hasn't taken drugs or alcohol since 2003 (and hasn't been arrested since 2002) and there is a difference between having the 'ability'/personality to get hypomanic during performances (Robin Williams is often mentioned as being similar), and being permanently manic to the degree you lose contact with reality for days / weeks / months at a time and are completely out of control.
What kind of recent "exploits" are you thinking of (apart from his TV appearances) when you say he is out of control?
re. the hypomania - he has stated in his biography that he has been diagnosed with bipolar (manic depression) and also in various interviews:
In the past Brand was diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and bipolar disorder. But the camped-up, live-wire performer an audience sees is not necessarily replicated in private, he says. "Outside of performing I'm not a particularly confident person. I'm shy, awkward, nervous, gauche."
Really? "Yeah, really. My confidence is for what I know that I'm good at. I've been sculpted by failure and by time. You see me doing my job. You know, obviously I am different when I am chatting to my mum. Or playing with my cat. People are multi-faceted, aren't they?" (Interview 2006)
One of the doctors at the Residential Treatment Centre for Sexual Addiction thought he was bipolar (what used to be called manic depressive). Had that diagnosis ever come up before?
"'Three times, at school, at drama school and then 'im. I'm aware of an oscillation but I've spent most of my adult life on drugs. It is hard to diagnose what it is, whether it is an inherent or inveterate chemical imbalance. I don't know. It wasn't self-inflicted as a child. I still felt volatile inside then. Anyway, the down times are a necessary correlation of the up times. With friends and people I know well there will be moments where I get uppity and show-offy, but most of the time, I'll be sitting watching and listening quietly. The performance isn't all there is – that would be unbearable.'" (Interview 2007)
You were bulimic and into self-harm as teenager. Have you ever been diagnosed with any mental illnesses?
"Yes, depression and manic depression and more latterly, bipolar. Attention deficit disorder, hyperactivity. It's difficult to know which of those diagnoses are correct because most of the time I was very young and on drugs." (Interview 2010)
However apparently he hasn't taken drugs or alcohol since 2003 (and hasn't been arrested since 2002) and there is a difference between having the 'ability'/personality to get hypomanic during performances (Robin Williams is often mentioned as being similar), and being permanently manic to the degree you lose contact with reality for days / weeks / months at a time and are completely out of control.
What kind of recent "exploits" are you thinking of (apart from his TV appearances) when you say he is out of control?
panpete
Blokes name, birds body.
What's wrong with questioning things, and not just swallowing every thing on telly?So the conspiracy theorists are divided about Brand
ska invita
back on the other side
i think this is the issue at the heart of criticisms against Brand, as opposed to critcising the content of this particular recent video, or the conspiracy stuff which i find pretty soft on evidence and just a fairly innocent/naive/well-meaning part of his freewheeling, often uncareful approach to sticking his finger in many pies.
...here's someone who is being encouraged by the entertainment and media industry to act in a way that goes against what a responsible psychiatric doctor would no doubt have proposed to him by now. Which is not to ignore Brands own responsibility to act in a way that isnt offensive and in his and others best interest.
The way it looks to me is that Russel Brands life is a circus on a rollercoaster, with some unsavoury moments thrown in for sure. The "hypsersexual" (to use the medical term) stuff can be particularly disturbing, and this clip referred to on this page isnt the only example of that thats been caught on camera - no one would be surprised by that i don't think. He's quite open about his sexual exploits and he is a proactive participant in these.
I don't have a scrap book of clips, but i have vague memories of switching the channel because I at least found it too embarrassing and uncomfortable how he was relating to women on the same show - not because im prudish about it, but because of...well, if you can see it in the morning tv clip then you can imagine it. Other posters here have found it out of order too, and i agree with them.
I guess overall I take a bit more nuanced view on this overall though - it's not as black and white situation as i think some posters here are making it. I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for people who suffer from mental health issues, and with him am prepared to give some slack to that. every person is different and you can only evaluate their actions by getting to know them closely. My overall feeling to Brand is that he's still messy and far from in full control of his condition.
I dont see Brand as equal to Delta for example (I dont think you were saying he was equal to him, and i got the general point you made cesare), though I think he can overstep the line regularly, and its absolutely right that he gets called up on it, and should also make personal effort to redress his actions. Problem is he gets a lot of positive reinforcement messages for that behaviour too, which must make it harder for him to curtail it. Its far from a good situation, but i dont go as far as to vilify him for his part in it. Its too complex for that - and I think that was what, was it Corax?, was getting at earlier...that its wrong to be too quick with the righteous judgment hammer. The history of dealing with mental health issues is one where black and white judgments have often been made with disastrous consequence.
ska invita
back on the other side
/... bi-polar isnt really a thing in itself, more a spectrum of conditions, on which medical knowledge is still pretty hazy. There are lots of people diagnosed with bipolar who appear to act in very different ways. Lifestyle and drug use also have a huge impact as to how the condition manifests. To me its very apparent in him even when he appears in a relatively sedate state because ive had contact with it in my personal life and recognise tell-tale signs. Those little interview extracts give a window into his condition but dont reassure me everything is fine - no one who isnt close to him could really know for certain what goes on in his mind and heart, but from what ive seen over the years (including the newsnight interview) he's still being blown about by the condition to some extent.
Bipolar, its treatment, and how society should react to inappropriate behaviour that manifests is a huge topic.... i dont have the answer to it, but i know that its wrong to be blunt in response to it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How does all that effect my responses to him. Tell me.
ska invita
back on the other side
i dont know, how does that affect your responses to him? Why are you asking me?
Anyhow it probably affects your response not at all if I know you well enough by now. Let me guess, you still think he is a drivel mongering multimillionaire conspiracy loon sexist new age quack who should shut up so people can get back to reading Hegel in the original German.
As usual your point of view is somewhat lost on me because of the noise of insults and other attacks.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You've given me a medical type view of brand and asked me to respond. I did. It means nothing to me. I asked you why you thought it important that you ask me about this and i get the above nonsense (nonsense that reveals that you haven't read my contributions to the thread).
You haven't been insulted once. You haven't been attacked once. Why did you make that up?
ska invita
back on the other side
sorry butchers, if you want me to read your posts carefully and remember them try a change in presentation style. I know its fun for you, but its exhausting for most everyone else. Ive already said its great that urban posters analyse everything to the degree that they do - i love that, and appreciate it.
I missed your response to the medical view i proposed, though yep, it means nothing to you, i could've guessed that. I think it means something.
I remember your contribution that said he funded Ickes TV station - i dont think that was true
I remember your contribution bad mouthing other posters. Well done for those.
You posted a picture from the Prodigy album - that made me laugh
Ive engaged with other points about sexism here at length and very clearly.
How am I doing?
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