Paramedics doubt Dr Kelly's 'suicide' cause

[editor]

The one where claims relating to Iraq's military capabilities were falsified or "sexed up" to make a strong case for war. You know all this, why insist on having everything spelled out?

You said that Dr Kelly was "involved in a conspiracy" yet I've still to see a single molecule of evidence to support this glib assertion.

So why make it?

 

[DrRingDing]

Eh? What's that got to do with this thread?

Everything.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The one where claims relating to Iraq's military capabilities were falsified or "sexed up" to make a strong case for war. You know all this, why insist on having everything spelled out?

If that was a conspiracy, it's a pretty weak one, and Kelly was certainly not central - numerous sources have indicated that it was bollocks and known to be bollocks, which was why the affair was whitewashed. And they're all alive.

 

[editor]

Everything.

Oh, do tell then.

Be sure to include any credible evidence to support this claimed link.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Occam's, er, Razor.

But you have said it all yourself - missing cause of death. To assume he bled to death because otherwise we just don't know how he died is more nonsense.

Once again DrJ shows that he has no idea what evidence is or what it means.

I have to tell you - again - that incomplete evidence is more evidence than no evidence. We know his wrists were slashed and that he took twenty-nine coproxamol. Now why did he do that, d'you think? And how convinced are you that you can't kill yourself doing that sort of damage to your body? Is that really the full weight of medical opinion, or have you just found yourself one person, or a few , who aren't happy with it and that's enough for you?

As for the blood, I have made a suggestion several times as to where the blood went. You have ignored it the same number of times as I have made it. Why, I wonder?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

If that was a conspiracy, it's a pretty weak one, and Kelly was certainly not central - numerous sources have indicated that it was bollocks and known to be bollocks, which was why the affair was whitewashed. And they're all alive.

We don't know that of course. It's quite possible that they have been secretly done away with but replaced with lookalike agents - possibly after plastic surgery - in order to keep us from knowing the truth. They meant to do this with Dr Kelly but it all went wrong.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Dammit, I was forgetting that. Well, that's my explanation blown out of the water then....

 

[MrSki]

If you are going to kill yourself you will not do it in a middle of a muddy field, when there's some trees and a spinny near by.

Of course if you were going to kill someone else, you would pick the muddy field?

 

[DrRingDing]

Be sure to include any credible evidence to support this claimed link.

So you think there is no link between the death of Dr Kelly and GWII?

 

[editor]

So you think there is no link between the death of Dr Kelly and GWII?

I was talking about the claimed 'conspiracy' that links the two together.

Have you got any proof that supports its existence or not?

 

[Stanley Edwards]

Oh, Good God!

Please...



It's depressing, it really is. There's real stuff going on that is a worthy fight! This thread has disappointed me more than any other thread on Urban.

FFS. It's so obvious and so sad. Let the poor guy rest and concentrate on the facts. The thing about you conspiracists that worries me most is that you're not prepared to face reality!

That is a big, BIG worry.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

So you think there is no link between the death of Dr Kelly and GWII?

Er, not a lot, unless I'm missing something here - they don't give a shit about UK affairs in the US and definitely didn't at that time.

 

[DrRingDing]

Have you got any proof that supports its existence or not?

Circumstantial as already discussed.

Have you got any concrete proof of your coincident theory?


This is fun, isnt it?

 

[DrRingDing]

Er, not a lot, unless I'm missing something here - they don't give a shit about UK affairs in the US and definitely didn't at that time.

So you reckon the US doesn't "give a shit" for other countries affairs?

The US doesnt interfere in other countries politics? Doesn't execute foreign people?


Leaves thread again

 

[editor]

Have you got any concrete proof of your coincident theory?

What's my 'coincident theory'?


But as a rule of thumb, if the explanation is good enough for the family - you know, the people who cared the most and those who knew far, far more about Dr Kelly than anyone else - then that's the one I'll run with unless any solid proof to the contrary turns up.

So what makes you think you might know more about the 'real' cause of his death than his family?

After all, they would have been privy to far more intimate details of his death than you, so how come they accepted the outcome of the inquest?

Any ideas?

 

[DrRingDing]

Who do you think fed the family details and information regarding his death?

But for the record I'm not certainly not 100% sure it was murder but I certainly feel I should come and bat for my team when faced with such opposition.





This thread is bollocks.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

So you reckon the US doesn't "give a shit" for other countries affairs?

The US doesnt interfere in other countries politics? Doesn't execute foreign people?


Leaves thread again

Sorry, but the USG has very little interest in the domestic affairs of the UK. Sure, if things were going in a drastically unfavourable way, they'd intervene, and they'd give some help to the UK in intelligence matters if it was favourable to their interests.

One bloke who had some stuff to say about Tony's statements in the Commons, when plenty of other people did as well? No chance. I'd believe MI5 had him bumped off way before I believed there was any US involvement.

To the USG, the UK is basically nothing. They were far more interested in maintaining domestic approval for their actions at the time. One senator is more important to them than the whole UK. Tony Blair is just a vague, peripheral figure in the US.

 

[DrRingDing]

Sorry, but the USG has very little interest in the domestic affairs of the UK. Sure, if things were going in a drastically unfavourable way, they'd intervene, and they'd give some help to the UK in intelligence matters if it was favourable to their interests.

That all depends on what you percieve the US to be and who is really in charge.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

That all depends on what you percieve the US to be and who is really in charge.

What do you mean by that? Of course it depends, but I can't see how a rational perception of the US could avoid that conclusion.

 

[DrRingDing]

What do you mean by that?

The real power men not just the politicians on the tele.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The real power men not just the politicians on the tele.

Like...

and interested in the minutiae of UK political affairs in what way...

 

[DrRingDing]

In a word, you know the one, that old chestnut the.....

Bilderberg Group


Now I'm under the weather and I'm off to bed infact I'm in bed already (wonders of wireless) and I shall not be back to this thread for as long as is possible.



*starts thinking up a new wanking thread*

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Even given the most conspiratorial interpretations of the Bilderberg Group, they would not give much of a shit about the internal machinations of UK politics unless it was in their interests. And they're not the US Government.

Face it, what happens on this little island means very little. Unless something major occurs, there's some significant shift of power, nobody cares. The papers may go on about it but it's meaningless.

 

[franklin1777]

Ok lots of comments to put down on this one:

1. Dr Kelly was a shy sensitive guy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7813-831341,00.html

I have seen this several times and might suggest that he might deal with the pressure badly, take it more to heart and thus lead to the suicidal tendancies. Not that im saying all shy sensitive guys are prone to suicide but if you take it a bit further and suggest that he might have found it difficult to express his thoughts and feeling to other people then suicide is at least in the frame. ( I actually think this article is quite opiniated)

2. Murder

if it were murder done by govts or some other party, do you not think it might have been done a lot better, why leave questions, they are a govt, millions of pounds, lots of expertise. Pick em up and lose him, dont leave a body behind. Plus if they did leave a body behind they would have taken care of all the details. Left no doubt that it was suicide.

3. Not every death is clear cut.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993564

Basically it says 3500 people die each year die of uneplained cause each year and out of those after a study 150 were found to have no suggestive reason at all.

The Arcticle is about Sudden Adult Death Syndrome. My point is that not everything can be explained away, not everything is a conspiracy, science isnt fact. Statistics and proabability means that nothing is ever certain. Plus how many people have done a study looking at blood loss in suicide.

With Dr Kelly environmental factors may have played a large part, everyone has seen CSI crime scenes are complicated.

4.

Somebody said as a scientist he would have chosen a better way. Your proabably right, but what if it was a atempted suicide that went badly wrong. Cutting yourself is a common way to get attention and some people use attempted suicide to get attention. I dont want anyone to say im trivialising suicide or anything like that, im just asking a question.

5. Media conspiracy theory.

This is my personal conspiracy theory. The media dont have to tell the truth, they can basically say anything they want as long as it cant be directly challenged for a few days and then they can print a retraction and no one will notice. In other words we live in a media controlled world. They want to make money and sell papers or advertising therefore they report senationalist news. Which story would you want to read. Suicide confirmed, or doubts over suicide. After all how come the political opposition are always great as opposition but the minute they get in power they are terrible, because underdogs sell newspapers.

Well that my two cents worth, i shall get off my soap box now.

 

[editor]

Who do you think fed the family details and information regarding his death?

The arrogance of conspiracy fans really knows no bounds!

If those really, really close to Dr Kelly serve up an opinion that doesn't suit their theory, well the answer's obvious - they must have been "fed" disinformation and all been too fucking stupid to realise it. Of course!

So was his wife being brainwashed when she said that her husband was "...very very stressed and unhappy about what had happened and this was really not the kind of world he wanted to live in."?

 

[Jazzz]

editor/justin

Do you really, really still believe that he bled to death?

And justin - if one concludes that he didn't it's not a massive leap to determent that he was murdered at the hands of person or persons unknown, who tried to make it look like suicide (hardly unheard of in murders).

The point is here that Dr.Kelly deserves a full, proper inquest. And he himself feared being murdered... in the woods, no less... and don't forget his reference to 'dark actors playing games'.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

And justin - if one concludes that he didn't it's not a massive leap to determent that he was murdered at the hands of person or persons unknown, who tried to make it look like suicide (hardly unheard of in murders).

Blimey! If only all judges were so rational.

It really is so very simple and so very sad. The guy topped himself with pills, a walk in his favourite woods and an attempted cut.

You are the kind of idiot that read all the crap in the papers without a moments consideration for this mans life.

It is so very sad. Had he any idea where his job was going to lead?

Strikes me he was essentially a 'good' man. Maybe you should consider that for a few moments?

 

[editor]

And he himself feared being murdered... in the woods, no less... and don't forget his reference to 'dark actors playing games'.

He also said that this was "really not the kind of world he wanted to live in" too. Why do you ignore that statement? And why do you think his wife and his closest friends don't believe he was murdered?

Why do you think you know better? And how about all those in the coroner's office? Are they all 'in on it' too?

Seeing as there isn't a single, solitary, teensy weensy, scrap of evidence to support your exciting conspiracy-tastic tale of bumbling, hopeless - but strangely invisible - hitmen lying in wait in the woods, then I'm inclined to believe that suicide remains the most likely scenario.

 

[editor]

Strikes me he was essentially a 'good' man. Maybe you should consider that for a few moments?

Sadly, DrJ really doesn't give a shit for anyone's feelings or show any respect when he's worked up on one of his conspiracy fantasies.

His disgraceful posts claiming Huntley's complete and total innocence and the involvement of a ludicrous US/Iraq plot were ample proof of that.

And now he believes he knows better than Dr Kelly's wife who must be pretty stupid in his eyes.

 

[nosos]

You'd want a fucking inquest wouldn't you?

Or would you be content being told that there was nothing to worry about, nobody getting away with murder. That they have explored all possible avenues of information?

No fucking way.

Precisely.

That's what I don't understand.