Paramedics doubt Dr Kelly's 'suicide' cause

[zit]

amazing that people actually believe the official suicide story and demand proof and evidence of foulplay, when the perpertrators are in charge and control what evidence we, the public, have access to.

it seems pretty certain that kellys wrists were cut after he was dead, hence the lack of blood...

just because we are not privvy to the evidence, because the murderers control what information we have access to, doesnt mean that murder didnt take place.

and about kellys family... im sure a good dose of intimidation or fabricated "evidence" could shut them up.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

My Idiot Detector just went off the scale.

 

[zit]

My Idiot Detector just went off the scale.

only now, after all your posts on this thread? id take it back mate, its obviously malfunctioning.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Your Evidence Detector, likewise, needs a little attention.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

My Idiot Detector just went off the scale.

I'm amazed it took that long

Mine went years back, around the time the first moon hoax stories started appearing....

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Mine went years back, around the time the first moon hoax stories started appearing....

Yeah, they were my fave too. I liked the one where somebody was saying it had to be a fake because the moon capsule took off from the moon without all the powerful rockets that they'd needed when taking off from Earth.

 

[zit]

Your Evidence Detector, likewise, needs a little attention.

maybe, but until i have a satisfactory explanation as to where the pints and pints of blood seemingly disappeared to, and saying it seeped into the ground is the daftest thing i ever did hear ,or that he did infact ingest a quantity of drugs that would have killed him, i just cant believe the suicide argument.

to say that there is no cover up or conspiracy because of a lack of evidence seems a weak stance to take because there wouldnt be any evidence, would there, if it had been successfully covered up... thats the whole idea of a coverup!!

the official story appears flawed to me so i have no option but to consider alternative scenarios, even though its a futile excercise because we are not privvy to all the facts, and likely never will be.

 

[tarannau]

maybe, but until i have a satisfactory explanation as to where the pints and pints of blood seemingly disappeared to, and saying it seeped into the ground is the daftest thing i ever did hear .

..erm why? If you pour liquid onto grassy/muddy land doesn't it absorb into the ground where you are?

I tell you, when I've been pouring away the 'magic' bucket of water (And various bodily fluids) after rugby games, it's had no problem whatsoever draining into the ground, Strange that; must be a conspiracy to keep us quiet and believe the official line.

If only Dr Kelly had laid out a nice piece of lino out for us in the woods, there'd never been any of this confusion would there....

 

[Donna Ferentes]

to say that there is no cover up or conspiracy because of a lack of evidence seems a weak stance to take because there wouldnt be any evidence, would there, if it had been successfully covered up... thats the whole idea of a coverup!!

I love this argument because it's beautiful. It's so neat. It's flawless. It reminds me of the way Stephen Jay Gould praises the arguments of the Creationists. If there's no evidence it's because it's been covered up. Therefore we never need to have any evidence. It's a joy.

 

[xes]

..erm why? If you pour liquid onto grassy/muddy land doesn't it absorb into the ground where you are?

I tell you, when I've been pouring away the 'magic' bucket of water (And various bodily fluids) after rugby games, it's had no problem whatsoever draining into the ground, Strange that; must be a conspiracy to keep us quiet and believe the official line.

If only Dr Kelly had laid out a nice piece of lino out for us in the woods, there'd never been any of this confusion would there....

That blood would still have been in the ground. i don't know if the ground was checked or not,but surley just cos it was (and would have) absorbed, it wouldn't have dissapeared?

Anyway,like I've said before,this thread is going absolutly nowhere.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

i don't know if the ground was checked or not,but surley just cos it was (and would have) absorbed, it wouldn't have dissapeared?

Eh? You think they would have cut out some slab of the ground and took it away with them? Why would they do that?

 

[xes]

Eh? You think they would have cut out some slab of the ground and took it away with them? Why would they do that?

I dunno,for geological reasons??

But you have to agree with me that this thread is going to achieve fuck all.

I shall stop reading it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

to say that there is no cover up or conspiracy because of a lack of evidence seems a weak stance to take because there wouldnt be any evidence, would there, if it had been successfully covered up... thats the whole idea of a coverup!!

But it's amazing how "they" never mange to do a successful coverup, they always leave clues for idiots to follow and write books about.

 

[tarannau]

I dunno,for geological reasons??

But you have to agree with me that this thread is going to achieve fuck all.

I'd agree with that. But it's fun though isn't it. And whatever happens - inquest, inquiry or national investigation - it's very likely to achieve fuck all as well. Spme of the folks on here want to see a conspiracy in everything, regardless of the lack of evidence or credible motivation.

And nothing's going to bring back Dr Kelly or achieve fuck all in reality either. Some folks seem too eager to ignore the opinions and sensitivites of the Kelly family in all this - what is this quest really going to achieve?

 

[zit]

I tell you, when I've been pouring away the 'magic' bucket of water (And various bodily fluids) after rugby games, it's had no problem whatsoever draining into the ground, Strange that; must be a conspiracy to keep us quiet and believe the official line.:

but blood is thick, red stuff (you dont say ) that would not be absorbed into the earth so easily as urine or water... and there would be sprayed blood everywhere around the scene and much of it would have dried up and be plainly visible on the surface of the ground... surely? perhaps.. maybe? lol

 

[Donna Ferentes]

And there was no blood visible on the ground, was there?

 

[editor]

But it's amazing how "they" never mange to do a successful coverup, they always leave clues for idiots to follow and write books about.

It's also amazing how many of the people who write these shite books/websites manage to be both totally obscure and woefully unqualified on their pet subject, yet still possess an uncanny ability to discover the 'real truth' about a whole host of other totally unrelated, conspiracy-tastic 'mysteries'.

 

[Thumper Browne]

but blood is thick, red stuff (you dont say ) that would not be absorbed into the earth so easily as urine or water... and there would be sprayed blood everywhere around the scene and much of it would have dried up and be plainly visible on the surface of the ground... surely? perhaps.. maybe? lol

Not to mention the lush bit of corpse shaped grass

 

[Stobart Stopper]

What if the foxes licked it off?
I sometimes put meat out that's left over and I have seen the fox licking the ground where the meat had leaked some blood.

 

[zit]

And there was no blood visible on the ground, was there?

if the amount of blood around the scene was small, because the wrong artery was cut (in this case the ulnar which would stop bleeding after about a pint of blood had been lost) then he didnt die from blood loss. if he did die of blood loss, because other arteries were also cut, then where did all the blood disappear to?

 

[Major Tom]

edit: read thread - oops!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

There were no other arteries cut, were there? Not to my knowledge.

 

[nosos]

Kelly was blowing apart the whole case for war. And who knows what further he was going or could have said? How can we presume to know? When he broke ranks he became a massive threat. He was at the top. He knew how the intelligence had been gathered/misrepresented, and was in a position to say so authoritatively. The canary had started singing.

How was he a 'massive threat'? Unless you actually have a hypothesis here, your argument is utterly lacking, Dr J. Is there any reason to believe that the risks of what Kelly could say outweighed the risks of bumping it off? What would he have had to know to make the government go to these lengths?

Of course editor's suggestion that people who know dodgy stuff should be taken care of before they talk to the press and break the official secrets act would mean that the whole top tiers of the civil service would have to be bumped off!

I'm usually quite genuinely sympathetic to your side of these arguments - especially when the editor's involved - but this is weak, mate and, crucially, you've failed to answer the question. If Kelly was so dangerous, why was he allowed to speak to the mass media first? For the murder case to be plausable, it presupposes a degree of competancy which is seemingly blown apart by the fact the evil government forces let him talk to the fucking BBC!!!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I went back and look at the story on the BBC website.

If I follow:

1. Some pathologists* do not think Dr Kelly bled to death. Others, however, do. (This is not unusual, because, as I've said several times already, forensics and pathology are very far from being exact sciences.)
2. There were two cuts.
3. There were other factors contributory to the death other than the cutting of an artery.
4. The families' barrister is generally satisfied with the conclusion as to how Dr Kelly died.

There's nothing new in what the paramedics are saying - all the elements of the controversy have been in the open for most of this year.

The only real oddity is that there does not seem to be an official verdict on how he died from a coroner or other similarly qualified person.

[* = there are several letters in the Guardian from these individuals, I've only supplied the first of them.]

 

[nosos]

It's also amazing how many of the people who write these shite books/websites manage to be both totally obscure and woefully unqualified on their pet subject, yet still possess an uncanny ability to discover the 'real truth' about a whole host of other totally unrelated, conspiracy-tastic 'mysteries'.

I agree with you on this issue, Mike but this is exactly what I take exception to with your contributions on these threads: your insistance that only qualified people are able to hold valid views on these subjects. How qualified and authoritative are your views? Or do you rules of justification only apply counter-factually.

 

[Thumper Browne]

Why is everyone assuming that if it wasn't Kelly who did himself in that it had to be the British Government that bumped him off? There were far more interested parties involved in the push for war. Bin Laden, Chabali, the oil services industry this list of vested interests is seemingly endless.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Magnificent.

 

[xes]

Why is everyone assuming that if it wasn't Kelly who did himself in that it had to be the British Government that bumped him off? There were far more interested parties involved in the push for war. Bin Laden, Chabali, the oil services industry this list of vested interests is seemingly endless.

Don't encorage them!!!

by them,I do not mean them but them. right?

 

[zit]

How was he a 'massive threat'?

he would not have been considered a threat until he had spoken unofficially to the press and proven he could not be trusted.

Is there any reason to believe that the risks of what Kelly could say outweighed the risks of bumping it off? What would he have had to know to make the government go to these lengths?

how the hell can we, joe public, be in a position to know that?

If Kelly was so dangerous, why was he allowed to speak to the mass media first?

allowed.??? he wasnt, not in this case anyway.

For the murder case to be plausable, it presupposes a degree of competancy which is seemingly blown apart by the fact the evil government forces let him talk to the fucking BBC!!!

how could they stop him talking to the bbc if thats what he wanted to do? are the MOD psychic now?

one things for sure, he wont be talking to the bbc ever again, will he...! how convenient....

 

[xes]

The only real oddity is that there does not seem to be an official verdict on how he died from a coroner or other similarly qualified person.

That's it!! there is the missing link!!! right,now all you non believers are up shit creek without a twaddle.



I'm bored,I've got loads of work to do,and i said that i'd stop reading this thread. Please,let me go!