Oceangate's Titan. The Bayesian yacht. Why do the deaths of rich people matter more than poor people?

[cesare]

I saw a waterspout in Sicily once. We were collecting drinking water from a spring on a cliff overlooking the sea. The Sicilians we were with were rather spooked, because, as we all now know, they are fucking dangerous.

I already had some understanding of this as I had been brought up with accounts of the tornado that had destroyed Gunnersbury Station although I was unaware of the carnage it had caused at the Britvik factory.

‘Just Like The Blitz’ – The First West London Tornado | Brentford & Chiswick Local History Society

That was interesting, and seeing one! I think I'd have been terrified tbf.

 

[Pickman's model]

That was interesting, and seeing one! I think I'd have been terrified tbf.

Yeh but you'd not have let the boat sink under your feet, you'd leap into action if not immediately the sea

 

[cesare]

Yeh but you'd not have let the boat sink under your feet, you'd leap into action if not immediately the sea

If I were awake at the time, I hope so.

 

[Orang Utan]

Perhaps that didn't come across as clearly as I hoped. I don't think most people look at rich people and think 'Wow that is so wrong their wealth should be taken from them and equitably distributed'
They look and think 'I want to be rich too'. This is a fantasy of course virtually none of them will but it's a nice comforting daydream. Lottery tickets and the 'if you work hard you will make it someday' shtick all play into that fantasy.

Didn’t you once cheerfully admit to tax avoidance? Perhaps it is you who is out of step

 

[strung out]

Yes he was rich. He wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his mouth his parents were a fireman & a nurse from council estates in Ireland. Mike Lynch was a very clever men who did very well for himself without any outside help. He donated a lot of money to local causes in the towns in Ireland his parents came from. He did not come from money everything he made was made by him alone! The ignorance & bitterness on this site is something else

Fair play, lurking for 15 years only to make your first post this word vomit

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Yes he was rich. He wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his mouth his parents were a fireman & a nurse from council estates in Ireland. Mike Lynch was a very clever men who did very well for himself without any outside help. He donated a lot of money to local causes in the towns in Ireland his parents came from. He did not come from money everything he made was made by him alone! The ignorance & bitterness on this site is something else

Oh get fucked.

Nobody - not one single person - has ever made it on their own. The idea of the “self made man” is one of the biggest lies ever sold.

 

[MickiQ]

Didn’t you once cheerfully admit to tax avoidance? Perhaps it is you who is out of step

No every single penny that went through Q Enterprises was properly accounted for and all tax on it was dutifully paid. I'm happy to admit that I followed my Accountant's advice on how to legitimately reduce that bill but despite any opinions you have that is neither illegal nor tax avoidance.

 

[Happy Tree]

Thou shalt not fanny about on a yacht.

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm happy to admit that I followed my Accountant's advice on how to legitimately reduce that bill but despite any opinions you have that is neither illegal nor tax avoidance.

It is tax avoidance (which is legal), but not tax evasion (which isn't)

 

[MickiQ]

It is tax avoidance (which is legal), but not tax evasion (which isn't)

Fair point

 

[Orang Utan]

No every single penny that went through Q Enterprises was properly accounted for and all tax on it was dutifully paid. I'm happy to admit that I followed my Accountant's advice on how to legitimately reduce that bill but despite any opinions you have that is neither illegal nor tax avoidance.

The Jimmy Carr defence.
You may now wish to examine why your sympathies lie with the super rich more than with refugees in dinghies

 

[Sweet FA]

Che's Longue

Chair man Mao (by Gerald Scarfe)

 

[Sweet FA]

MickiQ you're a fucking disgrace btw.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes he was rich. He wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his mouth his parents were a fireman & a nurse from council estates in Ireland. Mike Lynch was a very clever men who did very well for himself without any outside help. He donated a lot of money to local causes in the towns in Ireland his parents came from. He did not come from money everything he made was made by him alone! The ignorance & bitterness on this site is something else

Someone who doesn’t understand surplus value.

But also just interconnectivity. Nothing is actually independent of anything else. Certainly no human is.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Didn’t you once cheerfully admit to tax avoidance? Perhaps it is you who is out of step

Bragged, more than admitted I'd say.

 

[SpookyFrank]

No every single penny that went through Q Enterprises was properly accounted for and all tax on it was dutifully paid. I'm happy to admit that I followed my Accountant's advice on how to legitimately reduce that bill but despite any opinions you have that is neither illegal nor tax avoidance.

I didn't murder anyone officer, I merely stabbed him until he stopped being alive.

 

[Lotte]

There’d have been relatively poor people onboard too. Let’s not forget the crew, which media seems to have done.

The crew survived, apart from the chef - I assume he was in the galley? The crew would have been on deck, so easier for them to escape.

 

[LakieLady]

The crew would have been on deck, so easier for them to escape.

Would they? If they were at anchor, they might have had just one out, on watch.

 

[MickiQ]

MickiQ you're a fucking disgrace btw.

Disappointed I expect cheap jibes from Frank and Orang Utan (quite enjoy them in fact)
My basic point getting painfully back on point is that many people find it easier to empathise with a few rich people than a lot of poor ones because they can more easily imagine themselves in the place of the rich ones than the poor ones (no matter how unrealistic this may be)
This is a very cynical view of humanity and so far despite the rantings of a couple of known idiots no-one has posted anything to convince me otherwise.
Do you agree or disagree with this? If you disagree please feel free to put forward your argument.

 

[danny la rouge]

My basic point getting painfully back on point is that many people find it easier to empathise with a few rich people than a lot of poor ones

I really don’t think that’s true at all.

I think what actually happens is news people tend to share a background with the wealthy and so they think it’s more relatable.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Disappointed I expect cheap jibes from Frank and Orang Utan (quite enjoy them in fact)
My basic point getting painfully back on point is that many people find it easier to empathise with a few rich people than a lot of poor ones because they can more easily imagine themselves in the place of the rich ones than the poor ones

You get that a lot of us don't have to imagine being poor, right?

 

[maomao]

I really don’t think that’s true at all.

I think what actually happens is news people tend to share a background with the wealthy and so they think it’s more relatable.

Also,when we do get refugees on the news they are invariably presented as different from us and usually as a threat. The idea that the news agenda is somehow democratically driven by what people are interested in is endearingly quaint though.

 

[A380]

Show me a billionaire who got that way through their own hard work alone and I'll show you a liar.

What are you saying? Elon Musk is an example of how any son of blood emerald smuggling multi-millionaire parents based in a corrupt country can make it big….

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[Cid]

There’d have been relatively poor people onboard too. Let’s not forget the crew, which media seems to have done.

I believe, except the chef (which obviously RIP, not trying to be flippant), the crew all survived.

 

[Orang Utan]

Disappointed I expect cheap jibes from Frank and Orang Utan (quite enjoy them in fact)
My basic point getting painfully back on point is that many people find it easier to empathise with a few rich people than a lot of poor ones because they can more easily imagine themselves in the place of the rich ones than the poor ones (no matter how unrealistic this may be)
This is a very cynical view of humanity and so far despite the rantings of a couple of known idiots no-one has posted anything to convince me otherwise.
Do you agree or disagree with this? If you disagree please feel free to put forward your argument.

Loads of people have taken issue with this assertion. You are clearly not reading the thread

 

[zedr]

Fine rant there Frank back on form I see but quick question though if most people are willing to care about migrants why are so many protesting when they get housed near them?
And if most people hate rich people why do so many people play the lottery (I don't by the way)? Not many winners giving their winnings away and denouncing it has an evil capitalist plot?

Most people caring for migrants doesn't mean than many people can't also protest against them being housed (though, let's be honest, setting fire to a hotel for asylum seekers isn't really a protest). Those two words have different meanings so trying to use them to point out a contradiction doesn't really work.

 

[PTK]

The part of this I want to know about is what kind of compensation payout will be made to the families of the staff who died at work. It seems that safety procedures were not followed and the yacht sank very quickly after a knock down as the hatches were all open.

Very good point. It sounds like a case of corporate manslaughter.

 

[PTK]

Fine rant there Frank back on form I see but quick question though if most people are willing to care about migrants why are so many protesting when they get housed near them?
And if most people hate rich people why do so many people play the lottery (I don't by the way)? Not many winners giving their winnings away and denouncing it has an evil capitalist plot?

I dislike the rich, but I have played the lottery in the past because I was poor and needed some money.

 

[PTK]

I saw a waterspout in Sicily once. We were collecting drinking water from a spring on a cliff overlooking the sea. The Sicilians we were with were rather spooked, because, as we all now know, they are fucking dangerous.

I already had some understanding of this as I had been brought up with accounts of the tornado that had destroyed Gunnersbury Station although I was unaware of the carnage it had caused at the Britvik factory.

‘Just Like The Blitz’ – The First West London Tornado | Brentford & Chiswick Local History Society

Thanks for this.