November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht

[ViolentPanda]

Even if your summary of what rach stands for is correct, you agree with the course of action taken by urban?

Taken by a moderator of Urban, you fact-light dunce.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of course the man himself won't be able to reply to such a subjective and violent rant as you have posted here.

Please quantify how Jeff Robinson's post is:
a) Subjective
b) Violent
and
c)A rant.

I suggest you peruse Rachamim's recent posting history before replying, say for the past 2-3 weeks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Good - no platform for fascists. I'd ban you to you "Eastern" dictatorship loving clown.

I differ with you. I'm happy to give fascists a platform. It's the rope by which they most often hang themselves, in my experience.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Rach has on this thread and many times elsewhere identified himself with the zionist variant of fascism.

Or, more specifically, the Zionist-Nationalist variant of fascism.

Sometimes openly as quoted above, other times with weaselling, like when he claimed that the Betar movement (of which he admits he was a member) was never fascist, despite Mussolini's fairly convincing claim that they were and support for them prior to his Hitler pact.

Plus Jabotinsky's own ties to proto-fascists, as I recall.

Or that the Stern Gang were neither fascists nor terrorists, despite ample proof on both counts.

Proof that includes the words of members of the Stern gang themselves.

 

[coccinelle]

I differ with you. I'm happy to give fascists a platform. It's the rope by which they most often hang themselves, in my experience.

But Rachamim's obvious objective was to stifle discussion. So he flooded the boards with unfounded assertions, pointless micro-analysis and stupid side-issues until all other posters gave up. He effectively destroyed the Middle East section of these boards. He was not a normal poster, he was, in my opinion, a person with a specific propaganda mission.

But he's gone, and that's that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I say good riddance.

He was the sort of man who intrudes on an intelligent conversation and deliberately tried to dominate with a flood of unfounded assertions. And all that results is that everyone leaves the room.

Which was, I'd contend, the aim.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not as big an idiot as those who rather than refuting Rach's claims in open debate choose to silence him.

Refuting his claims?
Been there, done that, posted well-sourced evidence.
You know what? He'd usually reply to such stuff with "ABSOLUTE NONSENSE" or some such dismissal. No attempt at providing any rebuttal evidence, just dismissal.
If you think that that is "open debate", then you need your head examined.

If you don't want to see him use the ignore button. That's what I do now to all the deluded fools who think a 'one state' solution to the mid east situation wouldn't end in genocide.

You must be right. You're such an expert, after all.

 

[nino_savatte]

I found it myself. Two posts.







Two things I'd take from that. He said it in May of this year, and his definition of 'fascism', appears to translate into what most people would define as 'patriot'. He specifically eschewed the racist overtones of fascism.

Ah, but your erstwhile buddy is very, very wrong: fascism, apart from anything else, is a chauvinistic ideology that fosters an "Us" and "Them" mentality. The "them", in this case, are those who do not fit into the regime's notion of what a 'patriot' or 'citizen' should be. Fascism will always be open to racism, since the two are bedfellows in more than one sense.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Trying to sneak a bunch of partisans in as wikipedia moderators in order to skew the articles for propaganda purposes is a 'valuable counterbalance'?

Zachor is a recent convert to Judaism. He's got the convert's fervour.
Give him a few years, and he'll probably be a settler.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Which was, I'd contend, the aim.

Whether or not it was the aim, it certainly was the effect. I've argued before, you may recall, in the case of various pro-war neo-con propaganists, or members of the 'global warming conspiracy troof movement' that the technique is a kind of semantic denial-of-service attack, which while appearing to be participation in debate is in fact very effective at disrupting and suppressing debate on inconvenient topics.

What you do is spew out lies and propaganda faster than people can produce well-sourced refutations of them. As telling self-serving lies is a lot easier than actually producing well-sourced documentation to make your case, especially if you have access to 'talking points' provided by well-funded propaganda outlets, it's possible to completely dominate an online discussion in this way despite having loads of people showing, using well-sourced documentation, that you are totally barking. It requires a certain amount of shameless disregard for the truth to pull it off, for example in ignoring all evidence that contradicts your point of view no matter what its provenance, but it very often succeeds in shutting down discussions on the relevant topics.

 

[nino_savatte]

Not as big an idiot as those who rather than refuting Rach's claims in open debate choose to silence him.

If you don't want to see him use the ignore button. That's what I do now to all the deluded fools who think a 'one state' solution to the mid east situation wouldn't end in genocide.

The trouble with this idea is that Rach repeatedly posted up reams (often 1,000+ words) of content and evidence-free text; much of it was borderline racist and many of his posts claimed that Palestinians a) don't exist and b) have no history.

As for "open debate", this is never possible with one so set against open, honest and sincere discussion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Rach has on this thread and many times elsewhere identified himself with the zionist variant of fascism. .

Actually, he didn't. He did make the comments that I quoted, back in May, but for some reason, he wasn't banned for it, until five months later.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But Rachamim's obvious objective was to stifle discussion. So he flooded the boards with unfounded assertions, pointless micro-analysis and stupid side-issues until all other posters gave up. .

But, seems to me, people were arguing with him, right up to the point he was banned.

 

[nino_savatte]

Rach has on this thread and many times elsewhere identified himself with the zionist variant of fascism. Sometimes openly as quoted above, other times with weaselling, like when he claimed that the Betar movement (of which he admits he was a member) was never fascist, despite Mussolini's fairly convincing claim that they were and support for them prior to his Hitler pact. Or that the Stern Gang were neither fascists nor terrorists, despite ample proof on both counts. If the mods are going to ban BNP, I can certainly understand the argument for banning rach when he openly admits to being a fascist on a Kristallnacht thread.

He also told us that he was a Kahanist. Whether or not he was actually a member of KACH is open to debate. But given his pronouncements on these boards, it's highly likely that he was a member.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Actually, he didn't. He did make the comments that I quoted, back in May, but for some reason, he wasn't banned for it, until five months later.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8320838&postcount=12

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Refuting his claims?
Been there, done that, posted well-sourced evidence.
You know what? He'd usually reply to such stuff with "ABSOLUTE NONSENSE" or some such dismissal. .

Actually, he had a wealth of detail at his fingertips. He was one of the few posters who cared enough to respond to the standard half truths and innuendo posted up as truth. It's the main reason that you're glad to see him gone.

There's a group here that acts as if its interested in debate, but in reality, is only interested in seeing its side of the story posted up.

 

[nino_savatte]

From the linked post.

One thing though, it was not "Facism" that victimied anyone, but rather the stripe of Fascism practiced by Nazis. The core definition of "Facism" is imply uber-patriotism, putting the state above all else. There is nor racism at all.

This rather obviously overlooks Mussolini's invasion and subjugation of Abyssinia (Ethiopia).

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8320838&postcount=12

I stand corrected.

One thing though, it was not "Facism" that victimied anyone, but rather the stripe of Fascism practiced by Nazis. The core definition of "Facism" is imply uber-patriotism, putting the state above all else. There is nor racism at all.


On those grounds I proudly call myself a Facist, a Jewish -Facist. The Nazis were unqique in that they combined Fascism with unorthadox economc policies, as well as pseudo-scientific nonsense like eugenics. It is interesting how "Facist" has become a vile insult in such a short time (since WWII).

Once again, he explained what he meant by his use of the word. Idiosyncratic, but not an identification with nazi germany, I'd suggest.

 

[butchersapron]

He also told us that he was a Kahanist. Whether or not he was actually a member of KACH is open to debate. But given his pronouncements on these boards, it's highly likely that he was a member.

He admitted that he was a member until they were declared illegal.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Actually, he had a wealth of detail at his fingertips. He was one of the few posters who cared enough to respond to the standard half truths and innuendo posted up as truth. It's the main reason that you're glad to see him gone.

A "wealth of detail" is, I suppose, one name for his screeds, but a "wealth of detail" is nothing if not supported by fact in the form of sources.
Something he very rarely provided.
As for being glad to see him gone, I'm not. I'm a firm believer in letting people condemn themselves out of their own mouths, Rachamim was somewhat of an expert at this.

There's a group here that acts as if its interested in debate, but in reality, is only interested in seeing its side of the story posted up.

So you say.
Got any evidence, or are we expected (as Rachamim expected) to take your unsubstantiated opinion on trust?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

In any event, you guys have won again. You can feel smug that someone else who dissented from your line, is now gone.

 

[fela fan]

Please quantify how Jeff Robinson's post is:
a) Subjective
b) Violent
and
c)A rant.

I suggest you peruse Rachamim's recent posting history before replying, say for the past 2-3 weeks.

If you can't see why now, then no amount of explanation from me will help. Try reading it again and see if you can work it out. It's possible though that you could say it's not a rant, but for a and b, it's bloody obvious man.

 

[ViolentPanda]

In any event, you guys have won again. You can feel smug that someone else who dissented from your line, is now gone.

It's quite amusing how you attribute views and sentiments to people.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I stand corrected.



Once again, he explained what he meant by his use of the word. Idiosyncratic, but not an identification with nazi germany, I'd suggest.

No, but that was never at issue. The zionist-nationalist fascists were mostly not supporters of Nazi Germany (the Stern Gang were I'm fairly sure, but not in general). What they were were supporters of Mussolini and supported by him.

So when someone admits to being a former member of Betar and KACH, and says they are a 'fascist' it's reasonable to assume that they are identifying with the historical zionist-nationalist strain of fascism originating in the 20-30s particularly in the circles around Betar and Irgun founder Jabotinsky, just as an admitted former BNP member who identified himself as a 'Blackshirt' could reasonably be presumed to be a fan of Mosley.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you can't see why now, then no amount of explanation from me will help. Try reading it again and see if you can work it out. It's possible though that you could say it's not a rant, but for a and b, it's bloody obvious man.

It's not subjective. Rachamim's posts relentlessly portray certain Arabs negatively, especially if the happen to be Palestinian.
It's not violent. None of his post contains the expression of aggression against Rachamim.
It's not a rant, it's temperate rather than intemperate. The only slight;y hot-blooded point comes with the words "good fucking riddance".

You, sir, are an idiot.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, but that was never at issue. The zionist-nationalist fascists were mostly not supporters of Nazi Germany (the Stern Gang were I'm fairly sure, but not in general).

Insofar as an accredited representative of Lehi met a German diplomat (Werner von Hentig) and offered Lehi's assistance in anti-British operations in the middle east in exchange for the recognition of eretz Israel, then yes, they were most definitely supporters.

What they were were supporters of Mussolini and supported by him.

As shown in many of the documents salvaged from the department of the interior after the war, which also pointed out the scale of the subsidies to Mosley and even O'Duffy.

So when someone admits to being a former member of Betar and KACH, and says they are a 'fascist' it's reasonable to assume that they are identifying with the historical zionist-nationalist strain of fascism originating in the 20-30s just as an admitted former BNP member who identified himself as a 'Blackshirt' could reasonably be presumed to be a fan of Mosley.

He also admitted to being a fan of Jabotinsky, although that's pretty much of a piece ith being a member of BETAR.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No, but that was never at issue. The zionist-nationalist fascists were mostly not supporters of Nazi Germany (the Stern Gang were I'm fairly sure, but not in general). What they were were supporters of Mussolini and supported by him.

So when someone admits to being a former member of Betar and KACH, and says they are a 'fascist' it's reasonable to assume that they are identifying with the historical zionist-nationalist strain of fascism originating in the 20-30s particularly in the circles around Betar and Irgun founder Jabotinsky, just as an admitted former BNP member who identified himself as a 'Blackshirt' could reasonably be presumed to be a fan of Mosley.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm off; I'll leave you boys to pick the carcass clean.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, I'm sure.

I'm off; I'll leave you boys to pick the carcass clean.

Off you go then.

 

[butchersapron]

Insofar as an accredited representative of Lehi met a German diplomat (Werner von Hentig) and offered Lehi's assistance in anti-British operations in the middle east in exchange for the recognition of eretz Israel, then yes, they were most definitely supporters.

The meetings also took place on the explicit recognition "of a common worldview" between them and Nazis.

 

[Isambard]

The day in question 12,000 people, m,ostly non-political students (young, not university age) and leftists primarily from the Black Block (well known hard left consortium) rampaged through the university

Once I looked into it, it took about 30 seconds to realise what the story really was.

The 9th November is the anniversary of Kristalnacht, an anniversary that unsurprisingly, is marked with a great deal of sober reflection in Germany.
Germany has issues with some of its minorities for sure, but takes formal opposition to anti-semitism.

The following week was the conference of Germany's 16 education ministers and around that there was a day of action organised on the 12th November countrywide in schools and colleges. There were demonstations and pickets and leafletting campaigns and meetings in every major town from the North Sea to the Alps.

The issues of the action? Class sizes, lack of teachers, selection in secondary schools, charges in education, the introducton of elite universities. So, NOTHING to do with Israel or Jews. Well except of course in the oblique way that the protest has an anti racist current in that is ethnic minorities who get the roughest edge of the deal in the public education system that they were protesting about.

And likewise that there was probably a strong anti racist / anti fascist current in the organising team. There was NO WAY they would have organised demos on 9th November. Was a Sunday anyway so not the best day to organise a school strike on hey. Even the website for the action was .org rather than .de ,always a clue to where an organisation is coming from.

So you either bullshitting.
Or you were deliberately lying in a racist , xenophobic fashion and deliberately slandering those who blithely assumed would not defend themselves.

What are you? A bullshitter or xenophobic racist. Your call.