frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
neither am i, am gonna chill now. i was starting to get a bit testy for some reason.
maybe it was the jooooooooooooooooooz
November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht
- Thread starter Fedayn
- Start date
maybe it was the jooooooooooooooooooz
Dhimmi
Half Man Half HobNob
I believe it was his definition of fascism compared against Nazism which lead to the ban, meanwhile there's a noob user calling him a Nazi on this thread;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=8345065#post8345065
I'm very uncomfortable with the whole situation even if I've disagreed with just about every word he's ever typed.
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=8345065#post8345065
I'm very uncomfortable with the whole situation even if I've disagreed with just about every word he's ever typed.
Dhimmi
Half Man Half HobNob
Quite, and pardon the labeling but... there's something very refreshing about seeing two Jews debate such things, it can offer a strong foundation for a decent discussion.
Personally I'd rather see an zionist honestly declaring his views than a noob user dishonestly calling a Jew a Nazi, and I hope I'm not the only one. Not that I expect anything to come of it.
Personally I'd rather see an zionist honestly declaring his views than a noob user dishonestly calling a Jew a Nazi, and I hope I'm not the only one. Not that I expect anything to come of it.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Utterly grotesque.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong on this, esp. as I've had rachamim18 on ignore for a good few months, but did U75 really just ban a Jew for voicing an unpopular opinion on a Kristalnacht thread?
I don't know about U75, but Fridgemagnet did.
I find myself in the unusual position of being at a loss for words.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
There have been a number of temp bans lately, not too many permanent bans. Usually, the permanent bans have been new posters who are obviously here to disrupt.
It's hard to know exactly what will get a permanent ban, but now we have had one area clarified: being too vociferously pro Israeli.
I guess it's ok to voice unpopular opinions, to a point.
It's hard to know exactly what will get a permanent ban, but now we have had one area clarified: being too vociferously pro Israeli.
I guess it's ok to voice unpopular opinions, to a point.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Johnny haz a crusade
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
It saddens me, tbh. There are so few places where a free ranging voicing of opinions, or unrestrained debate, argument even, take place anymore. I thought this was one of them.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I'm not defending anyone. I'm despairing the loss of open debate and discussion.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
but zionist fascism is sooooooo fashionable this season.....
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
this is true to a degree,,,,,
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Without revealing too much, I can tell you that I've had jewish posters pm me to tell me that they agree with things I've said about the israeli/palestinian issue. They were just uncomfortable saying so on the open boards.
That's something for U75 to be proud of, eh?
That's something for U75 to be proud of, eh?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Besides, jews already have lots of places to beak off, at least if you believe this guy at Jew Watch.
http://www. jewwatch.com/jew-controlledpress-folder.html
http://www. jewwatch.com/jew-controlledpress-folder.html
Dhimmi
Half Man Half HobNob
I suspect that this shall pass.
I had similar when I did a thread on the "We are all Hezbollah" nonsense, I don't really get a lot of pm's and I had a flood from all types on that one, all of whom agreed but chose not to say so in public. Their choice of course but a shame.
One of the features I enjoy about here is how you can have a wide range of opinions expressed, and sometimes those can even be politely discussed to some illuminating length.
I'm not sure what purpose banning folk for having unpopular opinions serves really. I remember the night of that BNP/David Irving* debate at the Oxford Union, we had a polite BNPer turn up here with the aim of gloating over their victory, despite a cry or two of "Don't talk to them/No Platform" a number of us discussed the evening's events and ultimately the BNP'ers clearly boosted morale dropped off as it became apparent that getting a few speakers in front of an audience of less than one hundred is not, as the BNP suggested, an enormous political victory. In fact it's a regular and quite mundane activity for a number of small parties quite regularly.
Our shared chum, and all round good egg, Laptop has suggested on another thread** how R18 was perhaps supporting a revisionist version of nazi ideology. I disagree and as much as I loathe nazis, neo-nazis etc I'd not let that cloud my attempts for some little understanding.
One thing is how consistent this banning for unsavoury opinions is, or rather isn't. There's one regular poster on here who is a neo-nazi which I discovered after they very quickly posted a quite complex response which when googled revealed it was a cut and paste from a neo-nazi site which included links to "Ewige Jude", "The protocols of the elders of Zion", and plenty more anti-semitic propaganda. Wrote it all up in a response, reported the original c 'n' p on the thread, and the poster remains active to this day.
It's also a shame that we don't seem to be able to have a decent memorial thread on here. Very decent OP derailed, victims effectively overlooked.
*Shit
** http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8346233&postcount=37
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
i'd break that link if i were you johnny
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
lots of pms of support is it jc2? the last refuge of the scoundrel by the sounds of of it.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
spot the difference:
"Israel's blockade of Gaza, building of settlements, and so on, are all illegal under international law. But what do you expect from a bunch of kikes?" - anti-semitism
"Israel's blockade of Gaza, building of settlements, and so on, are all illegal under international law." - not anti-semitism
"The Jews control American foreign policy." - anti-semitism
"The Zionist lobby exerts a disproportionate influence on American foreign policy, for many reasons. However, the relationship between Israel and America has sometimes been strained, and should Israel become more of a liability than a strategic asset, America would turn its back on it" - not anti-semitism
"It's obvious why things are so bad in Israel - just read the Talmud!" - anti-semitism
"Some Jewish fundamentalists encourage extreme interpretations of scripture and use it to justify violence" - not anti-semitism
"Jews have been kicked out of every single country in the world. There must be something wrong with them. We should kick them out too!" - anti-semitism
"Jews have been persecuted in most countries in the world, for a variety of reasons, usually political and economic" - not anti-semitism
"Jews are trying to undermine the fabric of society by supporting revolutionary movements" - anti-semitism
"Jews have often been at the forefront of left-wing groups, mainly because of their history and position in society as an oppressed group" - not anti-semitism
"The holocaust never happened, jews eat christian babies, blah blah fucking blah" - anti-semitism
"The holocaust did happen and babies that went missing in medieval times or died were often blamed on Jews" - not anti-semitism
Zigacktly, dammit.
Also, mad prop"z" to FM for finally banning that racist loon.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
and i forgot:
"Israel has no right to exist because the Jews don't deserve a country. The Jews all support Israel so they don't have a right to exist either" - anti-semitism
"The creation of Israel was a tragic mistake. The best solution would be for a one-state solution and the end of Israel's status as a "Jewish state" where Jews have a priveleged position compared to everyone else, especially the palestinians. Unfortunately many Jews support Israel's present status and policies, out of ignorance or a sense of loyalty." - anti-zionism
"Israel has no right to exist because the Jews don't deserve a country. The Jews all support Israel so they don't have a right to exist either" - anti-semitism
"The creation of Israel was a tragic mistake. The best solution would be for a one-state solution and the end of Israel's status as a "Jewish state" where Jews have a priveleged position compared to everyone else, especially the palestinians. Unfortunately many Jews support Israel's present status and policies, out of ignorance or a sense of loyalty." - anti-zionism
The thing about rach's banning is that it just reflects the country where urban75 is based. Orwell illustrated well how political talk took place in britain. A country that prides itself on freedom of speech, but only within certain parameters that are never overtly identified, but are nevertheless subject to unwritten rules that never seem to vary.
Certain topics are just not allowed on urban. It reflects british political discussion.
I think one of the reasons that such censorship of certain topics or viewpoints takes place is that they make some people uncomfortable. The british have a dreadful legacy of human rights in our world, and anything that gets them too close to introspecting on that is in dangerous waters.
Urban seem to practise their very own D notices. Just like the mainstream press.
Rach being banned is a terrible thing. Reading what one thinks is apparently counter to one's own understanding in the world is an eye-opener to say the least. It gives one an opportunity to challenge one's own views. As usual, such worthwhile posters get banned.
Rock on orwell, you knew well what you wrote about.
Certain topics are just not allowed on urban. It reflects british political discussion.
I think one of the reasons that such censorship of certain topics or viewpoints takes place is that they make some people uncomfortable. The british have a dreadful legacy of human rights in our world, and anything that gets them too close to introspecting on that is in dangerous waters.
Urban seem to practise their very own D notices. Just like the mainstream press.
Rach being banned is a terrible thing. Reading what one thinks is apparently counter to one's own understanding in the world is an eye-opener to say the least. It gives one an opportunity to challenge one's own views. As usual, such worthwhile posters get banned.
Rock on orwell, you knew well what you wrote about.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
No, not lots. And the point is not the support for what I said, but the trepidation about stating their true feelings on the public boards.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
And if their true feelings include 'I am a fascist?'
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Can you point me to the post where he proudly identifies himself as a fascist? I can't find it on this thread.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
That is what you said, I believe.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I just typed 'rachamim' and 'fascist' into the search engine, and looked at all the posts in the first maybe 8 threads that came up. Beyond that, the threads that came up, had final posts in 2007.
I couldn't find the post or posts where he said 'I am a fascist'. Can someone help me, and point me to it please?
I'm assuming that he must have said it recently, given that he was banned today. I did find a two day ban for 'double posting'. I wonder if that ban is handed out very much?
I couldn't find the post or posts where he said 'I am a fascist'. Can someone help me, and point me to it please?
I'm assuming that he must have said it recently, given that he was banned today. I did find a two day ban for 'double posting'. I wonder if that ban is handed out very much?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Phildwyer or someone like him pointed out that there was a group of posters he respected: namely, posters who had the courage to speak their minds, even in the face of general opposition from the group. They included cheesypoof and rachamim. I totally agree with him, and include him in that group as well. This isn't to say that I agree with all or most, or sometimes, even any of what these posters say, but I have a lot of respect for their lack of fear in saying it.
It's unfortunate when posters like that are shunned from the accepted group. In Rachamim's case, I'd say that the discourse occurring between him and the anti israeli group, constitutes pretty much the only real political/social debate on these boards, ie debate where strongly views, get aired and criticized.
It's unfortunate when posters like that are shunned from the accepted group. In Rachamim's case, I'd say that the discourse occurring between him and the anti israeli group, constitutes pretty much the only real political/social debate on these boards, ie debate where strongly views, get aired and criticized.
Fully agreed jc. But when were you last in britain? You just cannot discuss things of a political or religious (or even philosophical) nature beyond certain tightly observed parameters. Those parameters are not written down, but one quickly finds out the extent to which they intrude. If you stick your neck out, you will cop it big time. Hence the fear for many people to express their opinions and ideas about life in the political lane. To them it just is not worth the aggro.
Mob rule i'm afraid mate. Compromise is not an art to be discovered on that island.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I found it myself. Two posts.
Two things I'd take from that. He said it in May of this year, and his definition of 'fascism', appears to translate into what most people would define as 'patriot'. He specifically eschewed the racist overtones of fascism.
Two things I'd take from that. He said it in May of this year, and his definition of 'fascism', appears to translate into what most people would define as 'patriot'. He specifically eschewed the racist overtones of fascism.
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