November 9th 1938 Kristallnacht

[butchersapron]

On this thread:

Tandoori: "Rachamim aid he is proud to be a 'facist'.": I suppose you happoened to miss the very recent thread (in honesty perhaps 3 months ago) in this very forum where I made the same exact statement and like you, was given an earful by others. I then challenged them to offer an actual definition of the ideology at its core essence and when some posters obliged all the voices shut up

QUICKLY. I invite you as well to actually research fascism to see what it is before running your mouth, or finger as the case maybe.

It has NOTHING to do with racism or prejudice of any kind, AT ALL. Stripped of the perversions offered by old Adolf (sic) it simply means "extreme patriotism." Most happen to find THAT to be an admirable attribute, not soemthing to denigrate and belittle.

 

[butchersapron]

Ah, non-racist fascism rears its mythcial head once more.

 

[Jonti]

Phildwyer or someone like him pointed out that there was a group of posters he respected: namely, posters who had the courage to speak their minds, even in the face of general opposition from the group. They included cheesypoof and rachamim. I totally agree with him, and include him in that group as well. This isn't to say that I agree with all or most, or sometimes, even any of what these posters say, but I have a lot of respect for their lack of fear in saying it.

It's unfortunate when posters like that are shunned from the accepted group. In Rachamim's case, I'd say that the discourse occurring between him and the anti israeli group, constitutes pretty much the only real political/social debate on these boards, ie debate where strongly views, get aired and criticized.

The trouble about this stirring eulogy is that Dwyer is a well known troll and self-confessed shit-stirrer.

A person who accepted his words at face value could end up looking something of a mug

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

16-11-2008, 02:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck2 View Post
Phildwyer or someone like him pointed out that there was a group of posters he respected: namely, posters who had the courage to speak their minds, even in the face of general opposition from the group. They included cheesypoof and rachamim. I totally agree with him, and include him in that group as well. This isn't to say that I agree with all or most, or sometimes, even any of what these posters say, but I have a lot of respect for their lack of fear in saying it.

It's unfortunate when posters like that are shunned from the accepted group. In Rachamim's case, I'd say that the discourse occurring between him and the anti israeli group, constitutes pretty much the only real political/social debate on these boards, ie debate where strongly views, get aired and criticized.

The trouble about this stirring eulogy is that Dwyer is a well known troll and self-confessed shit-stirrer.

A person who accepted his words at face value could end up looking something of a mug

You passed over the bolded part.

I'm not comfortable with someone using the term 'fascist' about themselves. I have the same reaction to the word that most do. He commented that his definition was not the standard one, but still, it was a bad and stupid choice of words. But not one worth banning over, especially since the offence took place in May, approximately 5 months ago.

 

[Zachor]

I found it myself. Two posts.







Two things I'd take from that. He said it in May of this year, and his definition of 'fascism', appears to translate into what most people would define as 'patriot'. He specifically eschewed the racist overtones of fascism.

JC

I've just joined this thread and may I just say how disgusted I am by the turning of a memorial thread into a place where various loons can posture and spout.

I totally disagree with the banning of Rach, not because I agree with him on everything but he does have an alternative POV of the issues in the region that doesn't either come from the lunatic fringe leftists who hate Israel for their own twisted reasons or the Israeli Govts PR departments.

Johhny, neither of those two posts show Rachamim saying 'I am a fascist', if anything he denied being a fascist but did say he is a nationalist. Not all nationalisms turn into fascism. One of the major failings of the UK Left in particular is the pooh-poohing of patriotism and its equation with the tyranny of historical fascist regimes.

The decision to ban Rach is a bad one. It removes a valuable 'other voice' that isn't encouraging violence or genocide (something which cannot be said for some of the anti Israel posters) and makes Urban much the poorer for it. If I wanted to post on a site which specifically exclude pro-Israel posters such as the Guardian's CIF site, then I would do. I would hate to see this place degenerate to that level but by banning Rach (who even though many don't agree with him isn't a disruptive troll like some of the 'here today gone tomorrow' bnp loons who have turned up on here) U75 is approaching that shameful level of agenda driven censorship.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I just typed 'rachamim' and 'fascist' into the search engine, and looked at all the posts in the first maybe 8 threads that came up. Beyond that, the threads that came up, had final posts in 2007

I couldn't find the post or posts where he said 'I am a fascist'. Can someone help me, and point me to it please?

I'm assuming that he must have said it recently, given that he was banned today. I did find a two day ban for 'double posting'. I wonder if that ban is handed out very much?

have you even been reading this thread?

Phildwyer or someone like him pointed out that there was a group of posters he respected: namely, posters who had the courage to speak their minds, even in the face of general opposition from the group. They included cheesypoof and rachamim. I totally agree with him, and include him in that group as well. This isn't to say that I agree with all or most, or sometimes, even any of what these posters say, but I have a lot of respect for their lack of fear in saying it.

It's unfortunate when posters like that are shunned from the accepted group. In Rachamim's case, I'd say that the discourse occurring between him and the anti israeli group, constitutes pretty much the only real political/social debate on these boards, ie debate where strongly views, get aired and criticized.

whilst your points about arguing out side the box may be valid, your choice of C/P as a reference point is a bit peculiar to say the least.

I found it myself. Two posts.

Two things I'd take from that. He said it in May of this year, and his definition of 'fascism', appears to translate into what most people would define as 'patriot'. He specifically eschewed the racist overtones of fascism.

shut up johnny, you're talking utter arrant nonsense. 'racist overtones of fascism' ffs, on a thread that was started about kristallnacht. give it up now please, seriously.

 

[butchersapron]

Bullshit:

One thing though, it was not "Facism" that victimied anyone, but rather the stripe of Fascism practiced by Nazis. The core definition of "Facism" is imply uber-patriotism, putting the state above all else. There is nor racism at all.


On those grounds I proudly call myself a Facist, a Jewish -Facist. The Nazis were unqique in that they combined Fascism with unorthadox economc policies, as well as pseudo-scientific nonsense like eugenics. It is interesting how "Facist" has become a vile insult in such a short time (since WWII).

I am sure Nino will offer that I should have no problem with HAMAS since I labeled myself a "fascist" so I figure to beat him to the punch.

Barking: Facism has nothing to do with racism. Personally I have dedicated my own life to my nation, Israel, and have instilled this same love of our homeland in my family and if this means I am a fascist, then I see nothing wrong with the label.

It has nothing to do with racism.

While I applaud your thread and would surely second your opinion about the limiting of freedoms in theocratical Iran, I would not sully the word "fascist" by including it in the same "blurb."

I know, I know, "Islamo-fascism" is all the rage these days but it really is a misnomer and "fascism" itself is so dearly misunderstood as to be non-sensical that bandying it about in this sense is just sad.

The base definition, as I so often say, is "love of one's nation above all else." Without a doubt there ARE Iranians who fit the "fascist" mold but to use it in the same breath with the current Iran just further sullies the word in the minds of the all too ignorant public.

For goodness sake, as if "Fascist" is automatically an insult.

As for beating up on Bang for allegedly having Fascist sympathies as opposed to simply not knowing the poedigree of the site he linked to (a mistake most everyone on any forum has mnade at one time or another), do you eeven know what "Fascism" means?


Hitler had a German Shepard. Or those dogs now verboten? He was a good organiser...should we all purposely become slobs? He was a great orator....should we all flub or speeches?

Facism unfortunately gets a bad rap. It usual definition is a person who puts the needs of the state above all else. In that case I would be proud to be fascist.

Nazis combined facism with eugenics and gave birth to a monstrous ideology but do not taint all patriots as racists unless they express those particular and henious views.

And there's tons more like this for those with eyes to see. Post after post establishing a position (fascism is misunderstood, it is actually beneficial, i support it, i am a fascist) , then defending that postion over and over. No, there's no doubt here, none at all.

And outrage at a jew being banned on a kristallnacht thread? What about a jew defending fascism on the very same thread?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

What Butchersapron said.

Rachamim18’s output on U75 appeared to have two main components:

1. To portray Arabs in an exclusively negative way
2. To deny that Israel has ever perpetrated any crimes against the Palestinians, or that the Palestinians even exist.

His race saturated, revisionist rants mirrored those of the European far-right with their anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. Good fucking riddance and I wish Zachor and JC2 would join him in the shithole of history.

 

[fela fan]

And there's tons more like this for those with eyes to see. Post after post establishing a position (fascism is misunderstood, it is actually beneficial, i support it, i am a fascist) , then defending that postion over and over. No, there's no doubt here, none at all.

And outrage at a jew being banned on a kristallnacht thread? What about a jew defending fascism on the very same thread?

Even if your summary of what rach stands for is correct, you agree with the course of action taken by urban? Banning voices that say the 'wrong' thing? He's been here a long time, and personally speaking any voice that runs counter to the majority is always worth listening to.

You wanting voices that say the wrong thing to be banned belongs to a fascist kind of thinking no?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes it does fela. I'm fascist as well.

 

[fela fan]

What Butchersapron said.

Rachamim18’s output on U75 appeared to have two main components:

1. To portray Arabs in an exclusively negative way
2. To deny that Israel has ever perpetrated any crimes against the Palestinians, or that the Palestinians even exist.

His race saturated, revisionist rants mirrored those of the European far-right with their anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. Good fucking riddance and I wish Zachor and JC2 would join him in the shithole of history.

Of course the man himself won't be able to reply to such a subjective and violent rant as you have posted here.

 

[fela fan]

Yes it does fela. I'm fascist as well.

Regardless of whether you're speaking a truth or just being sarcastic, do you like the attitude that suppresses the 'wrong' kind of speech, even though that speech is not inciting any kind of violence or action towards violence?

The best way to keep nasty things like fascism out of society is for the average person to hear the bile they come up with. Censorship and suppression inevitably lead to more popularity as a result of curiosity.

My post does not suggest rachamim was a fascist. I don't know whether he is or not. I suspect he's not. He's lived in and travelled to many countries, which is hardly the actions of a fascist.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Of course the man himself won't be able to reply to such a subjective and violent rant as you have posted here.

Good - no platform for fascists. I'd ban you to you "Eastern" dictatorship loving clown.

 

[butchersapron]

Regardless of whether you're speaking a truth or just being sarcastic, do you like the attitude that suppresses the 'wrong' kind of speech, even though that speech is not inciting any kind of violence or action towards violence?

The best way to keep nasty things like fascism out of society is for the average person to hear the bile they come up with. Censorship and suppression inevitably lead to more popularity as a result of curiosity.

My post does not suggest rachamim was a fascist. I don't know whether he is or not. I suspect he's not. He's lived in and travelled to many countries, which is hardly the actions of a fascist.

Just to let you know fela, i'm not reading your vague waffly bollocks, waste your time if you must.

 

[fela fan]

Good - no platform for fascists. I'd ban you to you "Eastern" dictatorship loving clown.

What a marvelous world you must live in jeff.

No platform for fascists... what about platforms for your variety of violence then? You like that kind better do you?

 

[fela fan]

Just to let you know fela, i'm not reading your vague waffly bollocks, waste your time if you must.

I don't waste my time butchers. You read what you like mate, it's called freedom of communication. Don't you worry about me, i can take care of myself. But if you don't read what i write, then how come you're able to know it's 'vague waffly bollocks'?

It's easy to catch you out.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Rach has on this thread and many times elsewhere identified himself with the zionist variant of fascism. Sometimes openly as quoted above, other times with weaselling, like when he claimed that the Betar movement (of which he admits he was a member) was never fascist, despite Mussolini's fairly convincing claim that they were and support for them prior to his Hitler pact. Or that the Stern Gang were neither fascists nor terrorists, despite ample proof on both counts. If the mods are going to ban BNP, I can certainly understand the argument for banning rach when he openly admits to being a fascist on a Kristallnacht thread.

 

[Jonti]

You passed over the bolded part.

I'm not comfortable with someone using the term 'fascist' about themselves. I have the same reaction to the word that most do. He commented that his definition was not the standard one, but still, it was a bad and stupid choice of words. But not one worth banning over, especially since the offence took place in May, approximately 5 months ago.

Do, I didn't. Sufficiently advanced stupidity can look a lot like bravery.

But I'm surprised that Rach got banned for calling himself a fascist. Will I get banned if I agree with him, d'you think?

 

[Jonti]

...
I totally disagree with the banning of Rach, not because I agree with him on everything but he does have an alternative POV of the issues in the region that doesn't either come from the lunatic fringe leftists who hate Israel for their own twisted reasons or the Israeli Govts PR departments.
...

How big an idiot are you?

Rach's a documented mouthpiece for CAMERA.

 

[coccinelle]

I say good riddance.

He was the sort of man who intrudes on an intelligent conversation and deliberately tried to dominate with a flood of unfounded assertions. And all that results is that everyone leaves the room.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

How big an idiot are you?

Rach's a documented mouthpiece for CAMERA.

Campaign for Real Ale? Surely not ...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Ah .. OK. Answered own question

Sourcewatch - CAMERA

 

[teqniq]

Campaign for Real Ale? Surely not ...

Heh, I was wondering that. Then I saw your follow-up post.

As for banning rach, well it's probably been a long time coming but I've always found the ignore function to be pretty handy.

 

[Zachor]

How big an idiot are you?

Rach's a documented mouthpiece for CAMERA.

Not as big an idiot as those who rather than refuting Rach's claims in open debate choose to silence him.

If you don't want to see him use the ignore button. That's what I do now to all the deluded fools who think a 'one state' solution to the mid east situation wouldn't end in genocide.

 

[Zachor]

Ah .. OK. Answered own question

Sourcewatch - CAMERA

Just looks like a valuable counterbalance to the 'anti zionism' that the Left has shamefully promoted. Instead of working for a just solution for all Left anti zionists have just stirred the shit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The only other report I can find is here:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1226404730069&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Just read a bit in the Berliner Zeitung online about it, and contrary to rachamim's assertions about the "black block" (who he accuses of being hard left ), it was a standard demo, and the display was damaged along with other stuff that had nothing to do with the Kristallnacht exhibition. Regrettable but tangential, not Judaeophobic.
Our Yankie friend is, as usual, colouring the facts with his own prejudices.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Just looks like a valuable counterbalance to the 'anti zionism' that the Left has shamefully promoted. Instead of working for a just solution for all Left anti zionists have just stirred the shit.

Trying to sneak a bunch of partisans in as wikipedia moderators in order to skew the articles for propaganda purposes is a 'valuable counterbalance'?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Rach's usual lies and bullshit.

Indeed.
E2A. Ah, he's been perma-banned.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There have been a number of temp bans lately, not too many permanent bans. Usually, the permanent bans have been new posters who are obviously here to disrupt.

It's hard to know exactly what will get a permanent ban, but now we have had one area clarified: being too vociferously pro Israeli.

I guess it's ok to voice unpopular opinions, to a point.

I thought you said that you were at a loss for words?

 

[Blagsta]

My post does not suggest rachamim was a fascist. I don't know whether he is or not. I suspect he's not.

So why did he call himself a fascist then?