Soz for the delay replying... was offline.
So we're seriously discussing this as a viable option? Rather recognising that it's just pub-speak, intended for everyone to say, "yeah that's a great idea!" without meaning one word of it?
Jealousy doesn't become you, kabbes
So a 30-year-old doctor, in a job that requires extremely high levels of skill and responsibility, years of training and very long hours while working, would get paid the same as a leaflet distributor?
Yes. Under the current system, people do not, overall, get paid according to their training and skill (think advertising 'executives, for example) so we're perfectly capable of accepting that kind of disparity. But my reason for suggesting it is that we have to live within the society we're born into (or drop out, which is bloody hard, or move elsewhere to something increasingly similar) therefore our subsistence (and in that I include some luxuries as life is miserable without them) should not be tied to our abilities. We can't help them, so why should someone not suited/able to be a doctor have to earn less just because of their nature/nurture? Your reward for training and effort in being a doctor would be job satisfaction (healing) given enough money to live comfortably.
I'm not sure that 'leaflet distributors' would be needed in a post-capitalist society but I don't see why a doctor should be financially recognised as being more important to society than a refuse collector.
Exactly. How well will a doctor heal the sick in a hospital overflowing with rubbish?
Fnumbers asked whether this could be done under capitalism, and the answer is clearly no because capitalism functions by attaching a monetary value to work according to its value to capital, balanced against the worker's leverage to demand that value. But I think it's a bit of a failure of the imagination not to be able to see past capitalism's wealth distribution and the assumptions that underpin it.
Ta and yep.
Being a leader at a dojo or at a community group is nothing like the level of responsibility involved in being a doctor - it's not even in the same country, let alone the same ballpark.
We've all been through this before, anyway. Some of you think that all jobs should be paid the same and that that would not deter people from doing the jobs that are really difficult and have huge responsibility. Some of us disagree. We're never going to persuade each other.
Think about how many people there are that do jobs that you wouldn't dream of doing. And remember that people will be making their choices about work safe in the knowledge that they will never starve. I think most people want to do something they're good at and enjoy rather than just something that's easy. Of course, things you're good at seem easy but I'll bet there are many things easier than many people's jobs that they wouldn't choose, even if the pay were the same, as they'd be bored through not using their talent.
Haven't you ever met any doctors? The pay is one of the things that keeps them in the job when the work gets really tough. Some of them also are doing it for the money - and they make way more than kabbes.
There are people like who will take on responsibility for the fun of it, yep. Not enough for our medical system, though, especially people who have that willingness combined with the actual ability to perform the job. I'm bloody glad there will never exist a world where every job got paid the same, because anyone who needed a doctor would be fucked.
I really disagree. Again, the money they'd be earing would be enough to live comfortably.
Sorry guys, haven't read the whole fred.. but could somebody be kind enough to fill me in on A) What would happen to us poor old worthless single parent/family providers...(seeing as we actually do the hardest, and most worthwhile job in the entire universe) It's difficult to find jobs that will fit in with school hours, or indeed the childcare that is needed for those jobs.. and B) All the other groups of people not "fit" or available for work...
I wasn't suggesting that everyone should have to work - not working would come under benefits. For which I'd favour a living wage as mentioned earlier. However, I think raising a family should probably count as work. I'd be interested to know what that would cost together with my plan, compared to what is spent on wages + benefits now. (But I'm too shit with this
to work it out myself).
I wouldn't do my job unless it was well paid, both because the responsibility is something I'd rather not have and because, well, it's boring. But in a completely non-capitalist society, my job in its current form wouldn't exist in any case. It's difficult to compare the effects of wage equality on different societies precisely because of this bugger factor.
Presumably you'd do a job you liked better then
I like a nice idea like this.
Not gonna happen ever but.....
How about starting on £20k at 20
Then annual increases of £1k until 50
Then annual decreases of £1k until dead?
I don't think people who are 80 need £80k a year do they? Especially with their kids probably earning £50k + and probably with savings/assets of their own.
This is a good amendment.
)
