littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Cheer up Slavoj Zizek. oh what can it .... mean?
Millwall fans conform with stereotype shocker ....
- Thread starter aylee
- Start date
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Squires.
www.theguardian.com
David Squires on … the booing of footballers taking a knee
Our cartoonist on demoralising scenes at Millwall, angry old white men and unlikely Marxism
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
The day has to come when Millwall gets its act together, and the excuse and apologies stop. This could be sorted out with enough will. Ban the people who booed. Punish the club with points deductions. A time limit to root out the racism or the club gets kicked out of the league. Magically things would get better. Or they wouldn't and the most racist club in England would cease to exist. Either way it's a win.
Athos
Well-Known Member
There's not a chance in hell that will happen, because of the 'plausible deniability' issue i.e. those who booed can claim that they don't disagree with the sentiment 'black lives matter', but they reject the political movement Black Lives Matter, because they reject its aims e.g. defunding police. If the club banned someone, he'd become a martyr, and probably sue and win, all of which would embolden other racists.
Similarly, that 'plausible deniability' would afford the club a defence against any disciplinary action by the FA.
It would've been better to have finished with the knee thing already, rather than give a hostage to fortune, and ending up here. Not least of all because it's become somewhat of an automatic gesture; it would've been better to replace it with more meaningful actions e.g. all players agree that, as soon as one of them hears a racist remark, they all - both teams - walk off the pitch, regardless of which club's supporters, or whether or not they're winning or losing. It wouldn't take that happening too many times before clubs, and, more importantly, other fans, put a stop to it.
I competely agree about clubs being punished for their fans' racist behaviour, though. I just don't think that booing the knee is the right battleground - not because I disagree in principle, but becuase it's doomed to fail.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Over the years the club itself often seems to find an excuse for its fans, instead of squaring up to them, as has happened in this case. What are they worried about? It it just a loss of revenue from season tickets? This is a genuine question. I don't know the answer.
Re - the knee - maybe it's a good thing that it carries on - let's see who is a dickhead out in the open? Why do we have to modify our behaviour to appease the ignorant? This is getting a lot of attention - Millwall won't be happy at the amount of comment. It might even cause change at the club (might).
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
not sure what the answer is.
while i'd hope it's obvious i'm not in favour of racism and broadly in favour of challenging racism, at what point does something like this become "little more than good PR" (to quote les ferdinand) ?
snag is now that if any club stops it, or if the FA / EFL stops it, that's going to be seen by some racists as a victory, like the way some dickheads rushed to congratulate companies that didn't immediately add 'BLM' to stuff when it became a big thing a few months ago.
blargh.
while i'd hope it's obvious i'm not in favour of racism and broadly in favour of challenging racism, at what point does something like this become "little more than good PR" (to quote les ferdinand) ?
snag is now that if any club stops it, or if the FA / EFL stops it, that's going to be seen by some racists as a victory, like the way some dickheads rushed to congratulate companies that didn't immediately add 'BLM' to stuff when it became a big thing a few months ago.
blargh.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
I suppose - but fuck the racists. Ultimately this as about principles, and they need facing down, regardless of any vistories that they might claim for themselves.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The club is clearly willing to tolerate it to a certain extent (though I'm sure they'd claim they are doing all they can); I suspect it's beacuse they don't want to piss off a sizeable and vocal section of their fans, not least of all becasue they need the money.
I'm not sure the 'value' in allowing dickheads to out themselves outweighs the cost of emboldening them (and others) to do this more and more.
I'm not proposing appeasement; my point was that it'd have been better to have replaced the knee with something more meaningful well before football found itself in this predictable bind.
I'd like to see players freezing out the club; going public en masse to say they'd not sign for the club until it sorts its act out.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
I'm glad it's carried on at least until fans are back in stadiums. Feels like a bit of an empty gesture if there's nobody watching.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Well ...from the BBC ‘No boos after Millwall fans asked to respect QPR players who take the knee’
Wonder if O’Neil , Fox and Embery were flogging the Spectator outside the ground
Wonder if O’Neil , Fox and Embery were flogging the Spectator outside the ground
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Lead by example :’ PSG and Istanbul Basaksehir players have walked off the pitch after they have accused the 4th official of being racist. Football is changing.’ This is the correct response to racism.’ ( can’t cut and paste always from Twitter.)
Apparently the official is alleged to have called one of the Basaksehir coaches what was politely described in translation as ‘black guy ‘ but others have said was ‘negro’
Apparently the official is alleged to have called one of the Basaksehir coaches what was politely described in translation as ‘black guy ‘ but others have said was ‘negro’
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Haha QPR scored and the players celebrated
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Not meaning to detract from the Millwall debate...this has just happened PSG v Istanbul Basaksehir: Both teams walk off pitch as match temporarily suspended - PSG and Istanbul players walk off
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Going to be replayed with another fourth official . There’s some great footage with Demba Ba arguing with the case .
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You get racism in Europe as well as the UKAn official being responsible
Both teams walking of
A European match
TopCat
Putin fanboy
A decent report of last nights match.
www.theguardian.com
Millwall fans applaud anti-racism gesture before draw with QPR
Millwall made a statement before their 1-1 draw at the Den and QPR replied with one of their own, with their players taking a knee
GarveyLives
Well-Known Member
(Source: as stated in image)
'Marxists' Ilias Chair (right) and Bright Osayi-Samuel (left) celebrate Queens Park Rangers' goal in yesterday's 1-1 draw against Millwall.
Saturday 13 June 2020: Pro-Racism 'protestor' ex-Detective Constable (and reported Millwall "fanatic") Male, rescued by 'Marxists after telling other members of the public near the Royal Festival Hall "F*** Black Lives Matter".
Booing those that kneel is an act of violent disrespect, a handshake met by a punch
no gesture could be considered empty after being sustained for so long and with all the historicism behind it. I know of someone quite high up in class war and that who see’s the knee thing as subjugation to the white power structure - which I agree with in parts - but it all came from Colin K refusing to stand for a stupid anthem. So if that’s the stance people adopt then who am I, or who is he, to deny or argue against that.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
By stopping players taking the knee, Millwall have handed racists a victory
Those who booed the race equality protest should not be pandered to, especially since the club have such a history of bigotry, says author Emy Onuora
This article makes mention of bananas being thrown at black players at The Den thirty years ago. Monkey chants etc.
I was a regular fixture at The Den thirty years ago. Never ever saw this happen. No bananas. Never heard of it happening either. Is the writer confusing us with Chelsea?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
By stopping players taking the knee, Millwall have handed racists a victory
Those who booed the race equality protest should not be pandered to, especially since the club have such a history of bigotry, says author Emy Onuora
This article makes mention of bananas being thrown at black players at The Den thirty years ago. Monkey chants etc.
I was a regular fixture at The Den thirty years ago. Never ever saw this happen. No bananas. Never heard of it happening either. Is the writer confusing us with Chelsea?
Thirty years ago? So, 1990.
That was when I was working at Hammersmith Council with a Millwall season ticket holder. Gentle giant, lefty, soft as shit, wouldn't harm a fly. Never forget him telling me of his pure embarrassment at his own club's fans who booed a young black guy out of the club. Quite literally, Millwall sold him on as his career was being halted by the abuse from the fans. He couldn't touch the ball without his own fans erupting in hate against him.
I've never forgotten that story (or my mate Colin).
So, with Colin in mind, who was born and bred around Millwall, not all Millwall fans are racist.
But fucking loads certainly were and still are.
Why whitewash it? What purpose is being served here?
Similar threads
