Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared

[editor]

Are you actually incapable of participating in a debate, without insulting those who disagree with you? It seems that every time someone produces facts to debunk your nonsense, you either insult them, ban them or both.
Grow up.

Then stop insulting people who have different tastes than you with offensive shit like, "but it's certainly going to plateau, and maybe subside, when people finally stop trying to convince themselves that cardboard doesn't taste better than most of the meat alternatives, and donkey piss doesn't taste better than most of the milk alternatives. "

You've made a series of patronising, ill-informed and ignorant claims throughout this recent discussion, and attempted to smear anyone who opts for a less environmentally damaging diet with all sorts of ridiculous claims.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I like this quote:
Today, the concept of producing a drink directly from oats instead of first feeding oats to a cow and letting the cow process them into milk is an option but back when we started in the 1990s most people thought we were totally crazy.

More vegan nonsense. Dairy cows aren't fed oats.

 

[editor]

But the cows do a much better job of it than we currently can...

Not if you factor in all the cruelty and the environmental impact. I actually much prefer the taste of non dairy milk anyway, as do a growing amount of people.

 

[editor]

More vegan nonsense. Dairy cows aren't fed oats.

This can only be trolling because no one can be this consistently stupid and ignorant.

Oats (Avena sativa L.) are a major cereal grain worldwide and the 6th cereal grain after maize, rice, wheat, barley and sorghum. Worldwide annual production was 21 million t in 2012. In 2009, livestock feeding (horses, cattle, sheep and poultry) was the primary use (70%) of oats
Oats | Feedipedia

Whole oats is one of the more popular creep feeds used in the northern plains. Calf performance and creep feed intake may not quite compare to that of more elaborately formulated commercial preparations, but oats requires no processing, is available on many farms and gives satisfactory results.
https://agnr.osu.edu/sites/agnr/files/imce/pdfs/Beef/OatsAsFeedForBeefCattle.pdf

Yes, oats can be used as a feed for beef cattle.
Can I use oats as a feed for beef cattle? – Beef Cattle

High protein oats can effectively replace corn and soybean meal in the concentrate mix fed to lactating cows and growing calves.

High Protein Oats Grain for Lactating Dairy Cows and Growing Calves 2

Summary. High protein oats (17.6% crude protein) were compared to regular oats (14.5% crude protein) and corn as the grain ingredients fed to 30 lactating Hols

academic.oup.com

http://www.oats2020.org/presentations/session%202.3/Jon%20Moorby.pdf

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/bch/OatsCattleFeed.pdf

 

[WouldBe]

Oh dear oh dear. Here's some actual science from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers that shows that dairy milk needs over three times as much water to produce a litre of the stuff.


And:

Typical values for the volume of water required to produce common foodstuffs
Milk - 1 x 250ml glass = 255 litres
To [rodice one litre - 1,020 litres of water is needed

How much water is needed to produce food and how much do we waste?

As much as 50% of all food produced in the world ends up as waste every year according to figures from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers. But how much water is needed to produce it?

www.theguardian.com

Nice to see they include rainfall in those calculations as though the rain wouldn't fall if you weren't rearing dairy cows.

 

[Saul Goodman]

This can only be trolling because no one can be this consistently stupid and ignorant.

http://www.oats2020.org/presentations/session%202.3/Jon%20Moorby.pdf

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/bch/OatsCattleFeed.pdf

See, you're at it again, insulting me because you posted some vegan nonsense.

Do you know the difference between calves, beef cattle and dairy cows? It's a good job dairy farmers do.

 

[IC3D]

Bread or rice has been the staple of the human diet for centuries the abundance of meat now is not normative historically.

 

[editor]

Nice to see they include rainfall in those calculations as though the rain wouldn't fall if you weren't rearing dairy cows.

If you're disputing the claim that soya/oat milk uses less water than dairy farming and is far less environmentally damaging, be sure to wheel in some studies!

 

[8115]

I was drinking almond but now I've switched to oat. I still eat other dairy though, I mainly just find milk hard to digest. You have to shake it each time you use it.

 

[editor]

See, you're at it again, insulting me because you posted some vegan nonsense.

Do you know the difference between calves, beef cows and dairy cows? It's a good job dairy farmers do.

Which part of this sentence are you having trouble reading. The link is above.

"High protein oats can effectively replace corn and soybean meal in the concentrate mix fed to lactating cows and growing calves. "

What do dairy cows eat?
Wet feed, called silage, is a mixture of fermented alfalfa, barley, and/or oats.

What do dairy cows eat?

Did you know that many of BCs dairy cows eat local? Many farmers in BC grow their own feed which means those dairy cows enjoy locally grown food!

bcdairy.ca

Wisconsin dairy producers are increasingly growing oats in the fall for cattle feed.

USDA ARS Online Magazine Optimizing Oats for Use as Dairy Forage

Wisconsin dairy producers are increasingly adopting a practice that makes economic and environmental sense: raising oats in the fall as forage for their cattle.

agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov

More vegan nonsense. Dairy cows aren't fed oats.

Just a reminder of that quote.

 

[WouldBe]

Which part of this sentence are you having trouble reading. The link is above.

"High protein oats can effectively replace corn and soybean meal in the concentrate mix fed to lactating cows and growing calves. "




Just a reminder of that quote.

Silage in the UK is just fermented grass.

 

[WouldBe]

If you're disputing the claim that soya/oat milk uses less water than dairy farming and is far less environmentally damaging, be sure to wheel in some studies!

You really need a study to show how stupid it is to include rainfall in those calculations?
I notice as well that they didn't include the grey water that cows return to the land as a result of digestion the grass they eat.
Expert study fail.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Which part of this sentence are you having trouble reading. The link is above.

"High protein oats can effectively replace corn and soybean meal in the concentrate mix fed to lactating cows and growing calves. "




Just a reminder of that quote.

Dairy cattle aren't fed oats.
Just because someone is trying something as an experiment, doesn't mean it's what happens. There are places in the world where cannibalism is still a thing but it doesn't mean humans are cannibals.

 

[Spymaster]

You have to shake it each time you use it.

 

[editor]

Dairy cattle aren't fed oats.

Except I've provided multiple examples from multiple sources that states quite conclusively that they are.

Here's another for you pretend doesn't exist and then I'm giving up because you clearly live in a world of weird reality denial and I'm bored wasting my time.

What do dairy cows eat?

Carbohydrates
Primary sources: barley, corn, oats, wheat, molasses, beet pulp, and soyhulls. Most dairy farmers grow their own barley, corn, oats, and wheat and will often process these grains to be fed to the cows.

What do dairy cows eat? | Alberta Milk

albertamilk.com

And here's a study for you to ignore

Cows given oats produced the most milk and milk fat while cows given wheat produced the most milk protein.

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats | Animal Science | Cambridge Core

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats - Volume 43 Issue 1

www.cambridge.org

 

[editor]

You really need a study to show how stupid it is to include rainfall in those calculations?
I notice as well that they didn't include the grey water that cows return to the land as a result of digestion the grass they eat.
Expert study fail.

That's one study that in your (unqualified) opinion 'fails.' There's plenty more that back up the fact that soya and oat milk is less harmful to the environment that dairy milk.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Except I've provided multiple examples from multiple sources that states quite conclusively that they are.

Here's another for you pretend doesn't exist and then I'm giving up because you clearly live in a world of weird reality denial and I'm bored wasting my time.


And here's a study for you to ignore

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats | Animal Science | Cambridge Core

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats - Volume 43 Issue 1

www.cambridge.org

Supplements can contain oats but the vast majority dont, they contain rolled barley, but that's not the point. You said/quoted this

Today, the concept of producing a drink directly from oats instead of first feeding oats to a cow and letting the cow process them into milk

That's like saying cows process copper into milk, as supplements also contain copper.
Or give it a big Mac to eat and tell people cow's convert big Macs into milk.
And again, the study you quoted was an experiment, to determine the digestibility of cereals in different forms.

 

[editor]

Supplements can contain oats but the vast majority dont, they contain rolled barley, but that's not the point. Y

Gotcha. So when you stated that "Dairy cows aren't fed oats," you you actually meant was, "Dairy cows are fed oats," like you've just admitted,

Glad that's all cleared up. Great work!

 

[Saul Goodman]

Gotcha. So when you stated that "Dairy cows aren't fed oats," you you actually meant was, "Dairy cows are fed oats," like you've just admitted,

Glad that's all cleared up. Great work!

No. They can be fed supplements which can contain oats (But usually don't). Your silly vegan quote was suggesting that cows are fed oats, which they convert into milk. They're not.
Hth

 

[editor]

No. They can be fed supplements which can contain oats (But usually don't). Your silly vegan quote was suggesting that cows are fed oats, which they convert into milk. They're not.
Hth

So the oats that you now admit cows are fed just disappear without trace? Remarkable!

 

[Saul Goodman]

So the oats that you now admit cows are fed just disappear without trace? Remarkable!

No, I didn't admit anything of the sort. I said that some supplements that can be fed to cows can contain oats (although most don't), but keep grasping at those straws, you might pull out enough of them to make another opponent.

 

[krtek a houby]

I've been off dairy (and cow meat) for over a decade. Not down to veganism but down to the fact that it doesn't agree with me. That said, it's good that there are so many alternatives. I tried them all in the UK and the tastiest was either coconut or rice. Not a huge amount of choice here, so I stick to the soy milk. Which seems to be the right choice, given the article.

 

[WouldBe]

Except I've provided multiple examples from multiple sources that states quite conclusively that they are.

Here's another for you pretend doesn't exist and then I'm giving up because you clearly live in a world of weird reality denial and I'm bored wasting my time.


And here's a study for you to ignore

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats | Animal Science | Cambridge Core

Cereal grains in complete diets for dairy cows: a comparison of rolled barley, wheat and oats and of three methods of processing oats - Volume 43 Issue 1

www.cambridge.org

We don't live in Alberta we live in the UK and don't have milk from Alberta in this country.
Your second piece of 'evidence' was an experiment so not necessarily what happens on a daily basis on UK farms.

 

[editor]

We don't live in Alberta we live in the UK and don't have milk from Alberta in this country.
Your second piece of 'evidence' was an experiment so not necessarily what happens on a daily basis on UK farms.

Except I've provided far more than two sources and even Mr Bizarre Denial himself now admits oats are fed to dairy herds.

 

[WouldBe]

Except I've provided far more than two sources and even Mr Bizarre Denial himself now admits oats are fed to dairy herds.

Your other main source was from New Zealand (water usage) and we don't live there either. You do have a choice. You don't have to 'ban' all animal products because some farms somewhere in the world have bad / unethical practices.

I saw the last episode of veganville the other week where a group of 5 vegans spent some time in Merther Tydfil (sp) trying to convince the locals to go vegan. 1 of the vegans was invited to have a look round a local dairy farm and came out with the classic quote "It's quite nice actually. I was expecting dead bodies and blood all over the place."

Deluded and gullible. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[editor]

You don't have to 'ban' all animal products because some farms somewhere in the world have bad / unethical practices.

Sorry, who has been proposing this in this thread? Links please.

And bad animal treatment and cruel practices are hardly some small niche little thing that can be brushed aside.

 

[8ball]

Peer-reviewed journal adds confirmation to initial tentative evidence:

 

[WouldBe]

And bad animal treatment and cruel practices are hardly some small niche little thing that can be brushed aside.

I never said they were. I abhor cruelty to animals and yes it does occur on a few farms but it's certainly not the norm as many vegans would have you believe.

 

[editor]

I never said they were. I abhor cruelty to animals and yes it does occur on a few farms but it's certainly not the norm as many vegans would have you believe.

I don't think you need to be vegan to recognise the fact that killing an animal that doesn't want to die is cruel in some way.

 

[friedaweed]

And it may suit your personal politics to dismiss it all as some kind of trendy fad, but you're wrong. There's a new generation who know how much damage the meat and dairy industry is causing to the environment and they're deciding to stop supporting it, either by giving up meat or cutting back.

Instead of dismissing them as hapless victims of faddishness, you should be applauding them.

That's not representative of what I posted. You're reading posts with your Dave Angle glasses on again mate.