Milk's impact on the planet dairy, soya, rice, oat and almond compared

[UnderOpenSky]

Generally we do not eat dairy cattle in the UK we eat beef cattle (unsurprisingly); if people paid a decent price for milk, instead of buying milk at cheaper than water prices because the supermarkets can squeeze the dairy farmers, and didn't waste a quarter of the food they buy and actually valued the food they bought, that would do more than eschewing a burger.

The cattle I sell as beef are pasture fed and raised (the UK is great at growing grass but not much of it cereals), it is transported 40 miles to get to me.

Eat less, better quality and buy locally, use a shopping list and eat what you buy.

The industrialisation of the food industry is causing an obesity epidemic, has devalued food and resulted in the centralisation of meat processing to enable the big retailers to feed the masses at low cost with intensively reared animals.

I could rant for hours on this but have to be up at 5.30 am to go to work in my shop selling locally sourced, high welfare, free range, known provenance meat.

It's telling even the BBC article in the OP quoted an American study. Sadly I wasn't there, but Monibot apparently got proper taken to task for spouting some of this stuff at the recent food and farming conference. So people who really don't do industrial type farming and deeply care about the environment.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Generally we do not eat dairy cattle in the UK we eat beef cattle (unsurprisingly); if people paid a decent price for milk, instead of buying milk at cheaper than water prices because the supermarkets can squeeze the dairy farmers, and didn't waste a quarter of the food they buy and actually valued the food they bought, that would do more than eschewing a burger.

The cattle I sell as beef are pasture fed and raised (the UK is great at growing grass but not much of it cereals), it is transported 40 miles to get to me.

Eat less, better quality and buy locally, use a shopping list and eat what you buy.

The industrialisation of the food industry is causing an obesity epidemic, has devalued food and resulted in the centralisation of meat processing to enable the big retailers to feed the masses at low cost with intensively reared animals.

I could rant for hours on this but have to be up at 5.30 am to go to work in my shop selling locally sourced, high welfare, free range, known provenance meat.

Well said. The supermarkets are the driving force behind most of the problems. They tie farmers into ridiculous contracts that see farmers making fuck all for their work, but minimum wage is based on supermarket prices, so it's a vicious circle, and boycotting supermarkets will only result in the poorer members of society losing out.
I don't have an answer, but raising the minimum/living wage would be a good start, then people would at least have a choice of where they bought their produce.

Of course Oats are still far better, but your almonds and soya come with a hell of a carbon footprint as we can't grow them here.

This is something a lot of preachy types don't take into consideration. Ironically, most of the preachy types are eating foods flown in from every corner of the globe.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Well said. The supermarkets are the driving force behind most of the problems. They tie farmers into ridiculous contracts that see farmers making fuck all for their work, but minimum wage is based on supermarket prices, so it's a vicious circle, and boycotting supermarkets will only result in the poorer members of society losing out.
I don't have an answer, but raising the minimum/living wage would be a good start, then people would at least have a choice of where they bought their produce.

You've gone about it the wrong way. Most people who struggle for cash can't afford to boycott the supermarkets, unless you are quite lucky geographically. Hell my partner is an organic farmer and we live in Greater Manchester and we still buy veg in Aldi over winter.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You've gone about it the wrong way. Most people who struggle for cash can't afford to boycott the supermarkets, unless you are quite lucky geographically. Hell my partner is an organic farmer and we live in Greater Manchester and we still buy veg in Aldi over winter.

I may be wrong but I think you're actually agreeing with me?
And have a like for Manchester

 

[editor]

This is something a lot of preachy types don't take into consideration. Ironically, most of the preachy types are eating foods flown in from every corner of the globe.

Oats and soya are HUGELY better for the environment than dairy milk and neither come with the horrendous cruelty associated with the dairy trade.
That is a simple fact, even when it's coming from 'preachy types.'

 

[Saul Goodman]

Oats and soya are HUGELY better for the environment than dairy milk and neither come with the horrendous cruelty associated with the dairy trade.
That is a simple fact, even when it's coming from 'preachy types.'

OK, please explain to me how your soy milk, which originates from the furthest corners of the globe, is 'better for the environment' than the cows' milk I buy from the farmer next door?

 

[editor]

OK, please explain to me how your soy milk, which originates from the furthest corners of the globe, is 'better for the environment' than the cows' milk I buy from the farmer next door?

Your claimed personal circumstances are entirely irrelevant to the debate. The overwhelming majority of people do not buy milk from 'the farmer next door.' The facts about the environmental damage of dairy vs soya/oat milk are well established, and dairy is hugely worse.

 

[editor]

Here. Read and learn:

A 2018 study by researchers at Oxford University concluded that producing a glass of cow’s milk has at least three times more environmental impact than producing a glass of any non-dairy milk.

So which milk should I buy?
As you can see from the figures here, there’s a fair amount of variability between different types of milk when it comes to environmental impact. Judging from current data, it seems like oat milk is the most sustainable option, so that would be my best recommendation.

The key take away here, though, is that in terms of food the biggest thing that you can do for the environment is to start to reduce the amount of animal products in your diet, and dairy milk is a simple place to start with this.

 

[WouldBe]

My new wallet is oiled Buffalo hide. No idea where they got Buffalo hide in England, but it is lush.

Long time since I had a leather coat. Perhaps that is what I need to upgrade my wardrobe?

There are some farmed buffalo in the UK. You can get British buffalo mozzarella.

 

[Riklet]

Clearly almond milk is out. Gotta be oat milk.

But cows' milk is just sooo damn tasty.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Here. Read and learn:

Where are the figures? You did your usual 'I'm only going to read the bits I want to read, then post something that bears no relevance to what was said.'.
My milk comes from the farm next door. Your soy milk comes from the other side of the world. The cow that produced my milk also produces calves, which, at some stage, I will eat. It's a sustainable cycle. How does soy milk compare to MY milk?

 

[WouldBe]

Oats and soya are HUGELY better for the environment than dairy milk and neither come with the horrendous cruelty associated with the dairy trade.
That is a simple fact, even when it's coming from 'preachy types.'

Once again that's not the norm in the UK dairy industry. You can repeat it as often as you like but it won't make it true.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Once again that's not the norm in the UK dairy industry. You can repeat it as often as you like but it won't make it true.

My uncle is a dairy farmer, and, as far as I've seen (my whole life) there's ZERO cruelty involved. It's just reactionary hyperbole, usually from preachy types who wish to offset their own lifestyle choices by attempting to make others feel bad about theirs.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Just as an FYI... You do know that unhappy cows don't produce milk (or produce a lot less milk), right? Or did the school of good vegan not teach you that?
Cows are happy.

 

[editor]

Once again that's not the norm in the UK dairy industry. You can repeat it as often as you like but it won't make it true.

It might suit your conscience to convince yourself that it's all lovely and the cows are just so happy to be milked, but the industry is inherently cruel.

' Supporting the dairy industry inflicts more pain on cows than you know. And yes, that includes drinking their milk'

When a female cow gives birth, her calf is removed within 36 hours so dairy farmers can steal the milk meant for her baby. According to experts, the separation is traumatising for both

www.independent.co.uk

Shocking Dairy Footage Reveals 'Horrific Conditions' On UK Farms Supplying Major Retailers

Campaigners reported finding 'emaciated and stressed' animals

www.plantbasednews.org

 

[editor]

Just as an FYI... You do know that unhappy cows don't produce milk (or produce a lot less milk), right? Or did the school of good vegan not teach you that?
Cows are happy.

Yeah I can see that. So happy it hurts.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yeah I can see that. So happy it hurts.

Is this what your farm is like, butcher ?
Thought not.

 

[editor]

Is this what your farm is like, butcher ?
Thought not.

So does that farm supply the entire UK? Thought not.

 

[Saul Goodman]

This shit annoys the fuck out of me. Someone finds a farm somewhere that treats animals badly, then the whole of the farming industry is tarred with the cruelty brush. It's absolute fucking nonsense.

 

[Saul Goodman]

So does that farm supply the entire UK? Thought not.

So does the farm you linked to supply the entire UK? Thought not.
Try to think before posting such drivel.

 

[Riklet]

undeniable that even dairy/meat produced in organic conditions on a farm next door has greater environmental impact than non-dairy alternatives.

plenty of other arguments could and should be considered, however. animal rights, local employment, alternatives to supermarkets, traditional culture & community, knowing where your food is from etc.

 

[WouldBe]

It might suit your conscience to convince yourself that it's all lovely and the cows are just so happy to be milked, but the industry is inherently cruel.

' Supporting the dairy industry inflicts more pain on cows than you know. And yes, that includes drinking their milk'

When a female cow gives birth, her calf is removed within 36 hours so dairy farmers can steal the milk meant for her baby. According to experts, the separation is traumatising for both

www.independent.co.uk

Shocking Dairy Footage Reveals 'Horrific Conditions' On UK Farms Supplying Major Retailers

Campaigners reported finding 'emaciated and stressed' animals

www.plantbasednews.org

Again that isn't the norm. From an earlier link there are around 8000 dairy farms in the UK.

 

[Saul Goodman]

undeniable that even dairy/meat produced in organic conditions on a farm next door has greater environmental impact than non-dairy alternatives.

plenty of other arguments could and should be considered, however. animal rights, local employment, alternatives to supermarkets, traditional culture & community, knowing where your food is from etc.

Is all part of the environmental impact. Depriving local farmers of a source of income is an environmental impact. You're not just impacting on the life of one farmer, the impact reaches much further.
It's a shame the preachy types refuse to see the consequences of their actions. We live on a part of the planet that's ideal for milk and beef production. Eat locally. If you want avacados, fuck off to Mexico.

 

[WouldBe]

This shit annoys the fuck out of me. Someone finds a farm somewhere that treats animals badly, then the whole of the farming industry is tarred with the cruelty brush. It's absolute fucking nonsense.

Yet try pointing out the Amazon being cut down for soy and your being daft.

 

[WouldBe]

undeniable that even dairy/meat produced in organic conditions on a farm next door has greater environmental impact than non-dairy alternatives.

Really. What about the environmental costs of producing the fertilizer and other chemicals used in growing the source of your vegi milk?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Yet try pointing out the Amazon being cut down for soy and your being daft.

Or the slavery on the Ivory coast, where children are being sold for $250 a piece, to harvest the cocoa plants... Whatever you do, don't mention it anyone who uses cocoa, especially not someone who eats vegan chocolate. And whatever you do, don't mention that virtually every national park on the Ivory coast has been replanted with cocoa plants, because god forbid one of them might have to give up their 'imported form Belgium' chocolate.
Seems to me that most of these preachy types are more concerned about being heard, than doing anything to change things.

 

[Calamity1971]

Yet try pointing out the Amazon being cut down for soy and your being daft.

Are you factoring in the amount of soy that is used for animal feed?
Or do you eat only grass fed?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Really. What about the environmental costs of producing the fertilizer and other chemicals used in growing the source of your vegi milk?

Another factor that can be conveniently overlooked.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Are you factoring in the amount of soy that is used for animal feed?
Or do you eat only grass fed?

Have a read of somewhere that isn't a vegan website, and you'll soon realise that the vast majority of animal feed (that isn't grass) is a by product of human food.

 

[editor]

Yet try pointing out the Amazon being cut down for soy and your being daft.

Except it's not because most - if not all UK - supermarket sellers use sustainable soya. But don't let that get in the way of your killer point.