phildwyer
Plata o plomo
Wikipedia reckons the USA has military bases in 85 foreign countries, while China has bases in 5. No contest:
Mearsheimer on why the US is in trouble
- Thread starter Protag
- Start date
Obviously. That doesn't change the fact that the meme makes up several imaginary US bases.Wikipedia reckons the USA has military bases in 85 foreign countries, while China has bases in 5. No contest:
List of countries with overseas military bases - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
NoXion
You remain unbroken, for your fight... is Eternal
It does suggest though that the truth is rather inconvenient for the creators of such graphics, if they have to resort to lying by omission and giving false impressions of the data they do have by featuring a little B-52 icon on each location, a deliberate design choice which might give the uninformed an incorrect impression about the actual military presence of the US.
That's not the "the way it is" is it then?
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
And that doesn't change the fact that, both historically and in the present, the USA is a far more imperialistic and aggressive nation than China.
China has attacked all of their neighbours at some point during the Qing Dynasty, which was enormously expansionist. China didn't get so big by accident you know.
China lacks the ability to project force overseas, the US does not. This isn't because China is somehow essentially peace loving.
But they are attempting to change their ability to project force.
Protag
Fan of think
The basic point this that even if China wanted to take over the world, they cannot, unless the US Empire collapses.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
And which was overthrown more than a century ago.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
Precisely. Furthermore, unlike the USA, China doesn't do cultural imperialism.
The Chinese Communist Party claims all the territories which had been conquered by Qing as well, and then some (the Qing were pretty uninterested in naval territory but the current lot are interesting in claiming SCS).
They try to, they are just remarkably bad at it.
China is spending billions to make the world love it
Can money buy that sort of thing?
Why Chinese Culture Has Not Conquered Us All
Xi Jinping regularly exhorts China’s diplomats, propagandists, journalists, writers, filmmakers, and cultural figures to “tell China’s story well.”The slogan flows naturally from the operating assu…
scholars-stage.org
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
But that's still not very much territory is it? As compared to what the USA has nicked over the last couple of centuries. Again, I see no contest in the imperialism stakes.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
View attachment 398218
There are 7 Chinese military outposts in the South China Sea.
In addition there is a Chinese naval base in Cambodia:
China's secret naval base in Cambodia, through satellite imagery
Ream Base is a hidden asset for China. But with a new geospatial intelligence satellite system, its operations can be tracked in real-time.www.naval-technology.com
There are also bases in Pakistan and Tajikistan and one seemingly in construction in Sri Lanka:
China’s next overseas military base likely a Sri Lankan port, report says – The China Project
The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s first overseas military base was built in China-invested Djibouti, and researchers think Beijing could use the same playbook again.thechinaproject.com
I wonder what a map would look like including these bases and erasing the imaginary US ones.
I think there's also a number of listening posts. I remember reading an account of the establishment of something like that on Vanuatu in the South Pacific. They've certainly made some investments there:
China, Vanuatu embark on new journey together
The People's Republic of China and the Republic of Vanuatu officially established diplomatic relations on March 26, 1982. Guided by a common vision and aspiration for common and resilient development that leaves no one behind, China-Vanuatu relations have matured through trials and hardships...
www.chinadaily.com.cn
Vanuatu’s PM Struggles for Political Survival Amid U.S.-China Tumult
Pacific nations are bearing the brunt of the new cold war.
foreignpolicy.com
Chinese police experts arrive in Vanuatu amid political crisis
China has sent police experts and equipment to the Pacific nation of Vanuatu in the midst of a political crisis that saw the Supreme Court rule the prime minister lost a no-confidence vote in parliament.
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gosub
~#
If you are going to get all historical...they are both a pair of lightweights
Tibet and Xinjiang are rather large.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
It's not comparable. American culture swept the entire world in the C20th. People from Bolivia to Bangkok watched American films, wore American clothes, listened to American music. Can you imagine Chinese culture achieving a similar influence? I can't (K-pop nonwithstanding).
Omg K-Pop isn't Chinese... you are trolling.
ska invita
back on the other side
That's fair, yes the image is propaganda in tone.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
I know what K-pop is. My point was that Asian nations can be culturally imperialist.
JimW
支那暗杀团
The role of the US military threat in shaping PRC history does go right back though, even to before the civil war when the US marine Corps occupied cities abandoned by the Japanese to hand them over to the KMT before the Reds got them, leaving aside Korea and Taiwan. Then the perceived necessity of having a military industrial base strong enough to compete with the Cold War powers helped that particular strand of nationalism win out against more properly socialist and internationalist possibilities.
Protag
Fan of think
Why should anyone pay 25 quid to read this.For anybody who's interested, an article has just been published documenting how John Mearsheimer doesn't know what he's talking about re Ukraine. One of the authors summarises the paper here:
Thread by @jan_dutkiewicz on Thread Reader App
@jan_dutkiewicz: 🚨 New Publication 🚨 In @JIRD_jour, @jan_smolenski and I critique the trend of IR theorists with little expertise in Ukrainian, Russian, and Eastern European politics making broad descriptive and pre...…threadreaderapp.com
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
The difference is that K-pop is interesting and entertaining. Most Chinese propaganda, such as the phenomenon of "white monkeys" tends to be boring.
The only bit of Chinese propaganda I've found interesting is:
It shows something like a fairy princess version of China that isn't anywhere near reality.
I've heard that her channel has been slapped down over the last few months.
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Nikkormat
Well-Known Member
It's free. Maybe it depends which country you are in.
For anybody who's interested, an article has just been published documenting how John Mearsheimer doesn't know what he's talking about re Ukraine. One of the authors summarises the paper here:
Thread by @jan_dutkiewicz on Thread Reader App
@jan_dutkiewicz: 🚨 New Publication 🚨 In @JIRD_jour, @jan_smolenski and I critique the trend of IR theorists with little expertise in Ukrainian, Russian, and Eastern European politics making broad descriptive and pre...…
Thanks Jeff. The thread reflects my view of Mearsheimer built up over the past couple of years; I'll get onto reading the article in full later.
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
It's a tough one. I want US bases off Japanese soil but am also fearful of threats from China and North Korea.
We've seen what horrors have been inflicted upon Hong Kong. Really don't wish to see it spread anywhere else in this region.
Honestly, don't know what the way forward is. Am definitely not going to listen to wumao or PNAC types, though.
8ball
Now containing implausible plot armour
Making something that's popular =/= cultural imperialism.
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
Nah, you confused Chinese culture with Korean pop.
That's your own cultural hegemony in full effect.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
Nobody could do that. I will say however that the Chinese youth have gone mad for K-pop, much to the disapproval of their elders. It's a bit like what happened with American culture in post-war Europe.
phildwyer
Plata o plomo
You make my case for me. Compare the earnest, scholarly efforts of the Confucius Institute to the irresistible, raucous onslaught of Hollywood and Rock'n'Roll. In the race for cultural supremacy there can be only one victor.
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