Losing benefit if you're an addict or obese

[Chilli.s]

At work (amongst older people and their low paid carers) I keep hearing people talking about 'scrongers on benefits' - as if they are to blame for all our economic ills. Most people seem to believe this sort of propaganda.
Its so depressing.

As a nation we do seem to swallow a lot of crap. And fairly defeatist/apathetic.

 

[8115]

The thing that baffles me is this (neoliberal?) idea that there is a human characteristic, that of having a job, and it's desirable and possible for all adults to achieve this characteristic by force of their own will and the will of the government. Totally divorced from wider society. As if having a job was like having tidy fingernails or something, rather than something infinitely more complex than that.

It's total wizard of Oz politics, click your heels together and say "there's nothing like having a job" 3 times. It's just getting stupid.

 

[treelover]

Comrades!' he cried. 'You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat those apples.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

 

[friendofdorothy]

You don't have to stuff your face either.

Ok blame people for eating.
Any blame for mass processed, heavily advertised, sugary fatty food produced by global companies?
Any blame for our govt giving us conflicting dietry advice for the last 30 years?
Any blame for the govt for allowing their friends in global megacorps for labelling processed food as 'healthy'?

 

[Chilli.s]

Fuckin' sharp cookie that Orwell.

 

[treelover]

Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Liam Byrne, in 2012:

‘The right to work must carry with it a responsibility to work.’ He added, ‘We don’t think that if you can work, you should be allowed to live a life on benefits.’

Shadow Employment Minister Stephen Timms:

‘We need to instill a culture of work in every community in the country. Our view is that people in receipt of benefits have a responsibility to work hard to find a job, and to take up the opportunity of work when it is offered. We will be tough on those who seek to shirk their responsibility.’

it all started well before the Condems.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I blame Thatcher - before that benefits were a safety net. Her policies made it become a way of life. Unemployment was a necessary part of her monitarist fantasy. 'Managed decline' of the north etc. Ding dong the witch is dead - but her hateful ideas are alive and well.

Genius of her sucessors to get the media to blame it all on the unemployed themselves.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Freedom of Information request 2015-105 Date received 11 January 2015 Date of response 13 February 2015 Information request Please could you provide me with the number of incapacity benefit/severe disability allowance (IB/SDA) or equivalent benefit claimants who were recorded as claiming benefit because of (a) Alcoholism, (b) reaction to severe stress, (c) obesity and (d) drug addiction for each year since May 2010. Using the most up-to-date data you have please provide me with the 20 local authority areas that have the largest percentage of claimants in each of the categories above – stating the area, the number and the percentage of claimants for each of the four categories

 

[friendofdorothy]

If the govt really wanted to reduce the benefit bill they would introduce a higher min wage so fewer people have to claim in work benefits and they would do something about the out of control housing rental market.

Exploitative employers and monet grubbing landlords should be in the frame here - expecting taxpayers to add to their profits makes them fucking SCROUNGERS - why no govt pronouncements about this? why no media outcry about the £millions being paid from the public purse straight to private profiteers?

 

[friendofdorothy]

Freedom of Information request 2015-105 Date received 11 January 2015 Date of response 13 February 2015 Information request Please could you provide me with the number of incapacity benefit/severe disability allowance (IB/SDA) or equivalent benefit claimants who were recorded as claiming benefit because of (a) Alcoholism, (b) reaction to severe stress, (c) obesity and (d) drug addiction for each year since May 2010. Using the most up-to-date data you have please provide me with the 20 local authority areas that have the largest percentage of claimants in each of the categories above – stating the area, the number and the percentage of claimants for each of the four categories

View attachment 67709

That's a huge reduction from over 2 million to 355,770!

- where have all these claimants gone - I wonder how many have actually found jobs? or is this just a great reshuffle from one benefit to another?

I seem to recall the massive increase in sickness /disabilty claims increased hugely in the '80s as the govt wanted to 'reduce' the unemployment figures.

 

[treelover]

Freedom of Information request 2015-105 Date received 11 January 2015 Date of response 13 February 2015 Information request Please could you provide me with the number of incapacity benefit/severe disability allowance (IB/SDA) or equivalent benefit claimants who were recorded as claiming benefit because of (a) Alcoholism, (b) reaction to severe stress, (c) obesity and (d) drug addiction for each year since May 2010. Using the most up-to-date data you have please provide me with the 20 local authority areas that have the largest percentage of claimants in each of the categories above – stating the area, the number and the percentage of claimants for each of the four categories

View attachment 67709

I love the fact some concerned citizens usually not affected by the brutalities of the welfare system are prepared to do all this work to get the facts.

btw, expect more attacks, its the Tories 'welfare week' this week.

 

[DotCommunist]

If the govt really wanted to reduce the benefit bill they would introduce a higher min wage so fewer people have to claim in work benefits and they would do something about the out of control housing rental market.

Exploitative employers and monet grubbing landlords should be in the frame here - expecting taxpayers to add to their profits makes them fucking SCROUNGERS - why no govt pronouncements about this? why no media outcry about the £millions being paid from the public purse straight to private profiteers?

workfare is opposed from all sorts of sectors- remember when it was all over the news, IDS had to change the rules retrospectively to make him right etc

thats why they won't even tell us which employers are involved in the schemes, because the knock on boycotts etc made the companies pull out.

 

[8115]

That's a huge reduction from over 2 million to 355,770!

- where have all these claimants gone - I wonder how many have actually found jobs? or is this just a great reshuffle from one benefit to another?

I seem to recall the massive increase in sickness /disabilty claims increased hugely in the '80s as the govt wanted to 'reduce' the unemployment figures.

Don't fret! Many of them have probably moved onto ESA.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Yes I recall. reminds me of this:

Charity shop smashed as hundreds 'celebrated' death of Margaret Thatcher
A Barnado’s charity shop has been forced to close after the front was smashed during a party celebrating the death of Baroness Thatcher.

 

[treelover]

Just been looking on the web for corpulent Tories, here is one

 

[treelover]

Yes I recall. reminds me of this:

Where was that?

 

[StoneRoad]

Freedom of Information request 2015-105 Date received 11 January 2015 Date of response 13 February 2015 Information request Please could you provide me with the number of incapacity benefit/severe disability allowance (IB/SDA) or equivalent benefit claimants who were recorded as claiming benefit because of (a) Alcoholism, (b) reaction to severe stress, (c) obesity and (d) drug addiction for each year since May 2010. Using the most up-to-date data you have please provide me with the 20 local authority areas that have the largest percentage of claimants in each of the categories above – stating the area, the number and the percentage of claimants for each of the four categories

View attachment 67709

That reduction kinda disproves CallmeDave's argument - and there aren't that many anyway !

 

[friendofdorothy]

Don't fret! Many of them have probably moved onto ESA.

I recall a friend of mine over 60yrs old with breast cancer and still undergoing treatment, having to wait out in the cold to sign on outside the jobcentre.

(she hit retirement age before an appeal was possible, and fortunately she has survived.)

 

[friendofdorothy]

Where was that?

Sorry I'm not good at links - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ds-celebrated-death-of-Margaret-Thatcher.html

I wondered why rioters had hit this charity shop - then found out it used workfare 'volunteers'

 

[treelover]

If its any guide to a bit of anger, the Guardian article on this has had over 3000 posts, most very critical indeed.

Its the working poor next and the self employed who get WTC, from May I think you will be deemed to be earning minimum wage or taking steps to get it before you get tax credits. They are running out of enemies, though maybe Putin will oblige.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Just been looking on the web for corpulent Tories, here is one

That is a weird hobby. Anyway who is he?

 

[treelover]

That is a weird hobby. Anyway who is he?

Andrew Percy, its not any sort of past time, just to illustrate that M.P's proposing this just look to themselves.

 

[equationgirl]

That's a huge reduction from over 2 million to 355,770!

- where have all these claimants gone - I wonder how many have actually found jobs? or is this just a great reshuffle from one benefit to another?

I seem to recall the massive increase in sickness /disabilty claims increased hugely in the '80s as the govt wanted to 'reduce' the unemployment figures.

Some have moved onto ESA (in fact, I would hope the majority) but there's many anecdotal reports of claimants saying 'fuck this shit' and taking themselves out of the benefits system altogether. Some of them are lucky enough not to need the money and are supported by families, spouses, friends but many are not, and sadly we read about them dying in the papers.

 

[treelover]

The Scapegoat: William Holman Hunt

 

[DotCommunist]

goddam election years. This is the year they both pretend to be safe hands for and deep lovers of the NHS also.

 

[treelover]

Apparently this latest assault will save the goverment approx. £10m. in contrast there was 6000 British people on the HSBC list with a total of £121 billion in their accounts.

 

[8115]

It obviously won't save the government £10m.

Like when you ask people how much they drink, then double it and double it again, any government figures about saving money on benefits should be halved and then halved again. And then the figure you end up with regarded as a wildly optimistic best case scenario.

Out of interest, counting reduction in benefits set against money paid out to workfare etc providers, increased costs at job centre, money paid to ATOS, are there any good estimates for how much has actually been saved so far?

 

[toggle]

It obviously won't save the government £10m.

Like when you ask people how much they drink, then double it and double it again, any government figures about saving money on benefits should be halved and then halved again. And then the figure you end up with regarded as a wildly optimistic best case scenario.

Out of interest, counting reduction in benefits set against money paid out to workfare etc providers, increased costs at job centre, money paid to ATOS, are there any good estimates for how much has actually been saved so far?

you[re missing the aim of the game. nothing to do with saving money, despite the rhetioric that heir core support lap up. it's about diverting tax income to service providers - read companies that know how to play the back slapping game, and give their old school tie fellows in westminster good soundbites about job creation and some lucritive advisory/non-exec-director roles when they loose their seat

 

[8115]

you[re missing the aim of the game. nothing to do with saving money, despite the rhetioric that heir core support lap up. it's about diverting tax income to service providers - read companies that know how to play the back slapping game, and give their old school tie fellows in westminster good soundbites about job creation and some lucritive advisory/non-exec-director roles when they loose their seat

I know that, but given that one of their stated aims is to reduce spending on benefits, I'd be interested to know if they've actually achieved this.

 

[smokedout]

Its dog whistle bollocks which is not going to become any sort of meaningful policy.

have you not been paying attention to what Iain Duncan Smith has been doing over the last five years?

it virtually already is policy and the only reason it hasn't got further is because the drug/alcohol treatment charities won't play ball. the danger is that some bunch of cranks like the salvation army step up to the plate and decide they can offer compulsory treatment, this kind of stuff goes on in the US welfare system all the time and thats where IDS is getting his ideas from. still all change is May probably, then the drug/alcohol treatent charities will probably cook up a nice form of forced treatment with their labour mates and it will all be alright because benefit sanctions are ok when labour do it.