WPGB or LP

[andysays]

Good points.
I think that what left-wing Labour candidates stand may be what most Labour voters think that the Labour Party stands for. Most people did not realise that Blair was continuing Conservative policies.

I'm not going to speculate on what most Labour voters think Labour "stands for", but I think it should be fairly clear to most people what an incoming Labour is likely to do, and it is pretty far removed from what your hypothetical left wing Labour candidate stands for.

 

[PTK]

I'm not going to speculate on what most Labour voters think Labour "stands for", but I think it should be fairly to most people what an incoming Labour is likely to do, and it is pretty far removed from what your hypothetical left wing Labour candidate stands for.

It is suprising how ignorant of this fact "most people" are.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

There are some decent people in the LP - though less since Starmer's purges, I don't think there are in WPGB.

 

[andysays]

It is suprising how ignorant of this fact "most people" are.

For what it's worth, most people I speak to are very much aware of how close Labour and the Tories are, and very cynical about the idea that voting Labour will bring about any positive change.

Most of them are people who should be part of Labour's "natural constituency", but for any who still vote Labour, it's from force of habit rather than with any enthusiasm.

 

[hitmouse]

do not equate what is happening in palestine to what is happening in syria or ukraine. neither of those are genocide.

Are you alright with describing them as massacres? War crimes? Is your line "I'm fine with supporting a candidate who suports war crimes, as long as they don't cross over into genocide"?

 

[discokermit]

Are you alright with describing them as massacres? War crimes? Is your line "I'm fine with supporting a candidate who suports war crimes, as long as they don't cross over into genocide"?

am i wrong? are they all the same?

 

[hitmouse]

am i wrong? are they all the same?

Syria is different to Ukraine. Ukraine is different to Gaza. Gaza is different to the Shoah. The Shoah was different to the Armenian genocide. I still tend to think bombing hospitals is a wee bit iffy, even if they're in Aleppo rather Gaza though.

 

[Knotted]

The practical Ukraine/Gaza difference is that voting WPB can reasonably be seen as a protest against the war in Gaza whereas voting Labour will definitely not be seen as a protest against the war in Ukraine.

(The problem with voting WPB as a protest vote over Gaza is that it might be too successful a protest, I really don't want to see more WPB MP's.)

 

[The39thStep]

Only because Ukraine has some ability to fight back. By the UN's guidelines on such things, it's attempted genocide. Stealing children to be sent thousands of km away to live with Russian families so they can be "de-nazified" is a textbook example. Section (e), Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2.

Has there been any applications to the UN under the guidelines which you refer to for them to consider the charge of attempted genocide in Ukraine ?

 

[The39thStep]

Thing is, it's not just Gaza. It's everything.

If someone is standing for (or indeed a member of) a political party, that surely means they agree in general with its policies. I don't. So fuck that for a game of soldiers.

You can vote for this though as its not an endorsement of Starmer

Life on benefits will not be an option under Labour, says Liz Kendall

In Demos speech, shadow work and pensions secretary takes tough stance on welfare as she lays out plans for young

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sue]

You can vote for this though as its not an endorsement of Starmer

Life on benefits will not be an option under Labour, says Liz Kendall

In Demos speech, shadow work and pensions secretary takes tough stance on welfare as she lays out plans for young

www.theguardian.com

Where's the rolleyes reaction thing when you need one.

 

[steeplejack]

Fun fact : the WPB are ‘observer members’ of the TUSC.

That will need a bit of examination. I would consider a vote for the TUSC where I live should they stand, but not if they are taking seriously / giving house room to Galloway & his fellow bigots / outcasts.

 

[DotCommunist]

I followed gallway on twitter for half hour to see if there would be more of him mugging off the hated journos with his skill for verbiage. I'm getting 'WEF Gone To Far' type usernames retweeted from his social medias within the 20 mins. Microcosm of the whole problem really, it'd be another spoiled ballot

 

[Serge Forward]

You can vote for this though as its not an endorsement of Starmer

Life on benefits will not be an option under Labour, says Liz Kendall

In Demos speech, shadow work and pensions secretary takes tough stance on welfare as she lays out plans for young

www.theguardian.com

A bit rich coming from Liz Kendall. This is the MP who local Labour Party activists (before the purges) used to refer to as "Lazy Liz" for being a useless lazy-arsed good for nowt. But it's always the useless lazy fuckers in high places who've never put a proper shift in in their life, telling those in lower places that they have to get to fucking work.

And that's without even mentioning what a vile right wing ersatz Tory shitstain she is.

 

[smokedout]

I had a dream that I shot George Galloway once. I can't remember the backstory except that it was a revolutionary situation and for some reason absolutely had to be done. He was going to fuck things up some way. I had someone with me who agreed, not someone I know, just one of those generic random dream characters.

Anyway to get to him we had to walk through this really big covered market in East London that doesn't actually exist. Then we walked down a long corridor and Galloway was sat in some shabby office at the end smoking a cigar like some sleazy private eye in a 1950s movie. And I shot the fucker in the chest.

I woke up immediately and in the brief moments when the dream was still real I had a spike of panicky wtf I just killed someone, but then I remembered it was George Galloway and it kind of felt, well, okay.

So I'd spoil my ballot.

 

[PTK]

I had a dream that I shot George Galloway once. I can't remember the backstory except that it was a revolutionary situation and for some reason absolutely had to be done. He was going to fuck things up some way. I had someone with me who agreed, not someone I know, just one of those generic random dream characters.

Anyway to get to him we had to walk through this really big covered market in East London that doesn't actually exist. Then we walked down a long corridor and Galloway was sat in some shabby office at the end smoking a cigar like some sleazy private eye in a 1950s movie. And I shot the fucker in the chest.

I woke up immediately and in the brief moments when the dream was still real I had a spike of panicky wtf I just killed someone, but then I remembered it was George Galloway and it kind of felt, well, okay.

So I'd spoil my ballot.

There are people that I might shoot in a dream about revolution, for whom I would vote in real, non-revolutionary life. But not Galloway.

 

[The39thStep]

A vote for Labour is not necessarily an endorsement of.............




If she'd have said something about improving health, rehabilitation and creating supported opportunities to work or reskill so that their incomes and quality of life would increase she might have had a point. However, it's all 'huge loss of what they could be contributing /terrible cost to the economy.'

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

A strange embolism of Angelica Houston in the Witches and Matt Lucas as George Dawes.
Weird machinations of meaningless drivel disguised as nothing. The language of business.

 

[Dystopiary]

A vote for Labour is not necessarily an endorsement of.............




If she'd have said something about improving health, rehabilitation and creating supported opportunities to work or reskill so that their incomes and quality of life would increase she might have had a point. However, it's all 'huge loss of what they could be contributing /terrible cost to the economy.'

And she's been saying it for years.

Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits.

 

[Serge Forward]

Aye, she literally despises anyone who dares to accept any benefits they are actually entitled to.

 

[hitmouse]

Got a mate who's going through the PIP assessment process at the moment and another who qualified round the end of last year. It says something that I'm left thinking "thank fuck they got their applications in now, before Reeves can take the current system and fuck it up even worse".

 

[redsquirrel]

Labour obviously, there are reasons to be happy with them and reasons to be less than unhappy with them, however it is going to be either them or the Tories that win the next election. Voting for WPB or various protest candidates is just that a protest that may make you feel better but will have no actual effect on anything

Hang on I'm not going to say people voting for Galloway was a good move (if I'd voted for anyone in Rochdale it would have been the JSO vicar) but the idea that voting anything other than Labour will have no effect is clearly bollocks.

Galloway's victory has had an effect on Labour, combined with the protests etc the party is certainly trying to finesse its line on Gaza. And more widely the votes the BNP attached did affect things. The votes that UKIP and the Brexit Party got (and which Reform seem likely to get) certainly did effect things both in terms of moving the policies of the Conservatives and splitting the vote (and possibly activists, councillors etc).

I'm opposed to electoralism, I don't think this is a good way for people to spend their political energy, but the rise of populism over the last decade or twoshows that your claim that "protest votes" don't, can't, have any effect is bunkum.