London SlutWalk - now *11th*June, 1pm Trafalgar Square

[ymu]

You're engaging with some half forgotten textbook, not with what I'm saying, revol. You need to learn to apply all that book learning properly.

 

[revol68]

You're engaging with some half forgotten textbook, not with what I'm saying, revol. You need to learn to apply all that book learning properly.

i'd suggest the person claiming that everyone is a potential rapist is the one dealing with some half forgotten textbook, it's such a hackneyed and worn out cliché it's meaningless.

 

[ymu]

Well, I don't understand where the "no right to comment" comes from, because you certainly have taken that opportunity.

Is your point then, that we need to understand why people commit the crime of rape? If so, where does that get us in terms of a slut walk? Is the explicit expression of sexuality any/ever kind of excuse for pushing some sexual activity? Can women reclaim some of the unequal power by playing up to, rather than avoiding, mens' stereotypes.

Not this "you're a cunt", "no, you're a cunt" kind of debate. imo. again

I am, fairly obviously I think, referring to the hysterical reactions from the resident apes, as repeated by revol on this very page, because he apparently couldn't even be arsed to read the thread before wading in, so arrogantly confident is he that he knows it all already.

I was responding to a point made by fridgemagnet. You can track back as easily as I can.

 

[frogwoman]

oh claire So sorry to hear this , probably better off on another thread tho tbh. I hope your ok x

 

[TruXta]

Did you miss the no-quote request, froggy?

 

[revol68]

I am, fairly obviously I think, referring to the hysterical reactions from the resident apes, as repeated by revol on this very page, because he apparently couldn't even be arsed to read the thread before wading in, so arrogantly confident is he that he knows it all already.

I was responding to a point made by fridgemagnet. You can track back as easily as I can.

I had no desire to read all the previous pages, the only thing I saw worth engaging with was your claim about advice to young women avoiding dimly lit streets and dodgy areas when walking home at night was disgustingly sexist and acted to apologise and legitimise male sexual violence towards women. I decided to engage with that point because whilst I could see a certain logic to it, it was one I felt was deeply flawed.

 

[frogwoman]

Did you miss the no-quote request, froggy?

have edited

 

[Clair De Lune]

oh claire So sorry to hear this , probably better off on another thread tho tbh. I hope your ok x

Yeah I'm fine really. Just dissapointed. Not gonna make a thread but guess wanted to write it down. Meh. x

 

[ymu]

I had no desire to read all the previous pages, the only thing I saw worth engaging with was your claim about advice to young women avoiding dimly lit streets and dodgy areas when walking home at night was disgustingly sexist and acted to apologise and legitimise male sexual violence towards women. I decided to engage with that point because whilst I could see a certain logic to it, it was one I felt was deeply flawed.

And you chose to be abusive. I know. The many women explaining why your attitude is offensive to them is irrelevant, because they're only women. Sorry, wimmin.

I can only judge you by your words and priorities. Your words and priorities mark you out as a cunt.

 

[revol68]

And you chose to be abusive. I know.

i said your argument was hysterical and made you look mental because frankly it does, like I said it would be like me cracking up about the police telling me not to leave my downstairs windows or front door open when out of the house, it doesn't mean the peelers are apologists for house breakers even if they ultimately uphold an economic system based on the universal theft of capitalism.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I had no desire to read all the previous pages, the only thing I saw worth engaging with was your claim about advice to young women avoiding dimly lit streets and dodgy areas when walking home at night was disgustingly sexist and acted to apologise and legitimise male sexual violence towards women. I decided to engage with that point because whilst I could see a certain logic to it, it was one I felt was deeply flawed.

so what about Gromit's point then?

 

[revol68]

so what about Gromit's point then?

i didn't read anything by him cos he was on an obvious troll, though I think i was in agreement with someone's point about women who deliberately look to solicit drinks from losers in bars needing to get some class.

 

[Fedayn]

That's the thing though. I raped a man once for precisely those reasons. That and not having proper thought about what rape was. (Coitus interruptus, me on top, simultaneous orgasm, I was weak.)

It's one reason why I hate discussions getting derailed by excuses to blame the victim. It's the potential rapists who need to know what's what, and that actually means all of us,

Hang on.... I'm wading through this madness and I find this?! You are admitting to rape/sexual assault/ whatever you wanna call it? Is this fucking real?!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i didn't read anything by him cos he was on an obvious troll, though I think i was in agreement with someone's point about women who deliberately look to solicit drinks from losers in bars needing to get some class.

That seems an odd thing to judge, tbh. Why judge women who do that?

 

[past caring]

Yeah I'm fine really. Just dissapointed.

Probably worth nothing 'cos we haven't engaged on here at all, but fucking horrible thing to have happened and glad your ok.

(dunno if that's saying too much, but will edit if required, obviously)

 

[ymu]

I have to agree with this. I am not a potential rapist. It makes no sense to talk about everyone being a potential rapist. I'm no more a potential rapist than I am a potential kiddy fiddler or a potential Tory. It just ain't going to happen.

I do accept that brain damage can change things - but then I would no longer be the same me in any meaningful sense.

And where did I make that claim? Why am I instantly stereotyped as some school of feminist, rather than my actual words read and understood? I regard 'feminism' as essentially a failure, and have said so repeatedly. But suddenly I'm Andrea Dworki because I explain that I onc raped a man simply hecause I hadn't thoufht about what it meant.

Why do you take revol's insulting parody of my argument as correct?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

i didn't read anything by him cos he was on an obvious troll, though I think i was in agreement with someone's point about women who deliberately look to solicit drinks from losers in bars needing to get some class.

really, class

women bring this stuff upon themselves.....

get a fecking grip

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And where did I make that claim? Why am I instantly stereotyped as some school of feminist, rather than my actual words read and understood? I regard 'feminism' as essentially a failure, and have said so repeatedly. But suddenly I'm Andrea Dworki because I explain that I onc raped a man simply hecause I hadn't thoufht about what it meant.

Why do you take revol's insulting parody of my argument as correct?

So you didn't say that everyone is a potential rapist? If not, I happily take it back.

 

[ymu]

Hang on.... I'm wading through this madness and I find this?! You are admitting to rape/sexual assault/ whatever you wanna call it? Is this fucking real?!

Yes.

Do you honestly think that is an appropriate response?

 

[revol68]

That seems an odd thing to judge, tbh. Why judge women who do that?

I just saw people posting about it and I said I thought it was pretty cheap and tacky and not something any girls i'm friends with would get up to, I also think it's the kind of behaviour that reproduces outdated notions of male and female roles, or prey and hunted etc

Not exactly an issue I concern myself with, especially as the idea of offering some girl in a club a drink in a bid to get a shag makes me shudder with cringe.

 

[Fedayn]

Yes.

Do you honestly think that is an appropriate response?

You're admitting that and criticising my response?

 

[Pickman's model]

So you didn't say that everyone is a potential rapist? If not, I happily take it back.

no, she did say it. i saw it in black and white not five minutes ago.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Why is being a troll a valid excuse for being a twat/behaving like one? It's the equivalent of saying 'I was only joking' and holds no weight with me.

 

[ymu]

So you didn't say that everyone is a potential rapist? If not, I happily take it back.

Why do you think I did?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

That seems an odd thing to judge, tbh. Why judge women who do that?

because they are bad!!!

 

[revol68]

really, class

women bring this stuff upon themselves.....

get a fecking grip

excuse me??

have i said anything close to that?

or agreed with such a sentiment?

fuck me, way to just make shit up.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Why is being a troll a valid excuse for being a twat/behaving like one? It's the equivalent of saying 'I was only joking' and holds no weight with me.

oh shut up and buy me a drink babes...

 

[Gromit]

When they're complainiing about women cadging drinks to excuse make sexual violence, I think its kinda important to challenge it.

Before you get away with putting words in MY mouth....

I never said that.

My contribution re drink was not in response to the OP about rape but the side discussion between spanglechick and Gavman about exercising sexual power and money. Namely this post:

both things are exercising power - but they're only powerful (i believe the word used was 'control[ing]') if you're an interested recipient. If someone doesn't want to be flirted with, they won't find themselves chatting up the skimpily-dressed woman. Or letting the bloke buy them drinks. and yes, some women find blokes who flash cash very much the turn-on. I also know that some blokes don't find women showing lots of flesh attractive. I'm very familiar with the traditional male = visual / female = narrative sexual triggers - there is a huge amount of written pornography which is generally consumed by women. But not all men respond to the same visual triggers, just like not all men prefer glossy american porn (or even enjoy porn at all).

yes some (straight) women fantasise over the kind of bloke they want. and for some that will be money. the whole footballer's wife wannabee type will openly admit that they actively go for rich blokes. others are into creative, tortured muso types... and blokes who are that type often put on their own show - self-consciously playing with power and attraction by gettinga guitar out at a party, or cornering a girl they think will be interested and spouting philosophy at them. it's all part of the same thing. some people of both genders enjoy putting themselves out their and seeing what power their particular brand of attractiveness will have. and it's entirely harmless. no one is being controlled. if you weren't interested you'd walk away.

Please learn to read threads properly. Or can't you cope with two discussions taken place on one thread? Seemingly not.

 

[Pickman's model]

the idea of offering some girl in a club a drink in a bid to get a shag makes me shudder with cringe.

no, the idea was girls going round bars (not clubs) trying to get drinks off losers (not wait to be offered them).

 

[Pickman's model]

excuse me??

have i said anything close to that?

or agreed with such a sentiment?

fuck me, way to just make shit up.

you post on libcom, you should be used to it.