London SlutWalk - now *11th*June, 1pm Trafalgar Square
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
No. I was responding to FM saying rape had nothing to do with self-control. The apes started screaming rapist and no discussion was had. A few days later, one of the apes started screaming about it again.
Then a few people decided to tell me it wasn't rape and that I was trivialising the topic. Now most of them have changed their minds, but apparently I'm still wrong. And I have no idea what planet you're on at all because you seem more interested in inventing me a biography to prove yourself right than the thread topic.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
ymu
You were 18 years old, having consensual sex with a man 20 years older than you
You didn't climb off him when you were both cumming and you define that as you raping him?
This does not really make any sense to me.
You added the detail about him being 38 late in the thread
Then later on you added some contextual information about being sexually assaulted by a doctor at about the same time or just before.
It seems to me as though you have some trauma related to the sexual assault with the doctor and possibly / probably in relation to other things also.
You are doing a strange dance here in which you alternate between accusing yourself of a crime you did not commit and accusing others of crimes they did not commit and things that they didn't say.
None of it makes a lot of sense other than to try to understand it as some kind of unconscious re-enactment of a traumatic event. Then at least it seems to make some sense, to me at least.
I worry that you are simply re-traumatising yourself posting here.
I think this thread is a powerful example of how sexual trauma can be unconsciously re-enacted if the victim does not have the necessary support at the time. It is also an example of how being violated can leave you with an internal rapist / violator whose abusive behaviour can be acted out by the victim, usually completely unconsciously.
ymu
I'll say it again
You are worth more than this
You are not doing yourself any favour here
Please, please stop and take a break.
Something powerful is happening in your mind and if you can get the support you need to deal with it and understand it it might be very valuable for you but this thread has become very abusive and nasty and you really need to step away.
You were 18 years old, having consensual sex with a man 20 years older than you
You didn't climb off him when you were both cumming and you define that as you raping him?
This does not really make any sense to me.
You added the detail about him being 38 late in the thread
Then later on you added some contextual information about being sexually assaulted by a doctor at about the same time or just before.
It seems to me as though you have some trauma related to the sexual assault with the doctor and possibly / probably in relation to other things also.
You are doing a strange dance here in which you alternate between accusing yourself of a crime you did not commit and accusing others of crimes they did not commit and things that they didn't say.
None of it makes a lot of sense other than to try to understand it as some kind of unconscious re-enactment of a traumatic event. Then at least it seems to make some sense, to me at least.
I worry that you are simply re-traumatising yourself posting here.
I think this thread is a powerful example of how sexual trauma can be unconsciously re-enacted if the victim does not have the necessary support at the time. It is also an example of how being violated can leave you with an internal rapist / violator whose abusive behaviour can be acted out by the victim, usually completely unconsciously.
ymu
I'll say it again
You are worth more than this
You are not doing yourself any favour here
Please, please stop and take a break.
Something powerful is happening in your mind and if you can get the support you need to deal with it and understand it it might be very valuable for you but this thread has become very abusive and nasty and you really need to step away.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
There is a difference between simple rules (no means no) and complex judgements (did he know she was saying no?).
My rule (if you're told to get out, you get out) may well be wrong. I just want to know what your rule is. Cos we're not talking a situation where there is time or brain capacity for complex moral judgement here.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It was 23 years ago. I am not looking for counselling.
I just want people to discuss what rape is without derailing it into a series of excuses to hate women or a series of excuses for not being sure if she's saying yes or not.
Yes, those problems and uncertainties exist. But I want to start with what people understand rape to be. And the reason for that is because I think that the kind of misogyny being spouted yesterday is a massive contributory factor, and I don't think men will face up to that until and unless they are made to.
That is all.
We are talking about something I posted days ago, to little comment. I have no idea why people are forcing a context on it that was never there.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
This is the post I was responding to, a week ago.
I think this is wrong, and it serves to distance 'normal' people from 'rapists', and allows people to avoid thinking about what it is and why it happens. Very few rapes are committed by strangers, and rape is very common. It is about power, but that doesn't mean it is something entirely separate from sex. It's too complex to pigeon-hole that easily.
I think the distancing is what allows some men to indulge in really vile sexist abuse whilst kidding themselves that they're not doing anything harmful, cos rapists are rapists innit. I think the pervasiveness and social acceptability of these attitudes leads some men to really just not getting it, with horrific consequences.
Which is why I was not letting them get away with it yesterday. And was really fucking dismayed to see so many people letting it go.
I think this is wrong, and it serves to distance 'normal' people from 'rapists', and allows people to avoid thinking about what it is and why it happens. Very few rapes are committed by strangers, and rape is very common. It is about power, but that doesn't mean it is something entirely separate from sex. It's too complex to pigeon-hole that easily.
I think the distancing is what allows some men to indulge in really vile sexist abuse whilst kidding themselves that they're not doing anything harmful, cos rapists are rapists innit. I think the pervasiveness and social acceptability of these attitudes leads some men to really just not getting it, with horrific consequences.
Which is why I was not letting them get away with it yesterday. And was really fucking dismayed to see so many people letting it go.
Voley
🐀
Please do. It's really grim now.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
I think you should close it TBH
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
It feels like whatever anyone says or does is going to feel abusive and violating to ymu
I'm not saying that some people here haven't been really aggressive and rude, granted some people have been, but something very dark is being acted out here and this seems to me to be all about not thinking and instead just acting out as a defence against thinking / remembering.
Now we're in a situation where if the thread is locked it will feel abusive and if it is allowed to continue it will feel abusive in a different way.
Just thinking aloud.
I really think that the thread should be locked, at least for a while so that everyone can take a break and lick their wounds and recover.
I'm not saying that some people here haven't been really aggressive and rude, granted some people have been, but something very dark is being acted out here and this seems to me to be all about not thinking and instead just acting out as a defence against thinking / remembering.
Now we're in a situation where if the thread is locked it will feel abusive and if it is allowed to continue it will feel abusive in a different way.
Just thinking aloud.
I really think that the thread should be locked, at least for a while so that everyone can take a break and lick their wounds and recover.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I haven't had enough sleep to deal with this well, but I'm fine Loulou, thanks. Please stop trying to find some weird psychological reason why I don't just ignore sexist abuse any more than I ignore racist or homophobic abuse.
It's not my fault the apes were just allowed to get on with it whilst I was attacked for bothering to challenge them. Nor is it my fault that they dug up a week old post and started screaming 'rapist' at me, whilst the rest of you decided to tell me I was trivialising rape by using that word.
We have been talking at cross purposes. I am not a delicate little flower who needs protecting. I am not acting out some horrific trauma, except possibly the racist attack on my partner that caused his PTSD and crippling headaches, because that is the reason I don't let any fucking bigot get away with it no matter which demographic they're insulting.
Sorry, I posted again. But this patronising bullshit is really pissing me off. Is it really so hard to believe that some people don't just ignore hate speech when they hear it?
It's not my fault the apes were just allowed to get on with it whilst I was attacked for bothering to challenge them. Nor is it my fault that they dug up a week old post and started screaming 'rapist' at me, whilst the rest of you decided to tell me I was trivialising rape by using that word.
We have been talking at cross purposes. I am not a delicate little flower who needs protecting. I am not acting out some horrific trauma, except possibly the racist attack on my partner that caused his PTSD and crippling headaches, because that is the reason I don't let any fucking bigot get away with it no matter which demographic they're insulting.
Sorry, I posted again. But this patronising bullshit is really pissing me off. Is it really so hard to believe that some people don't just ignore hate speech when they hear it?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Up to ymu.
I'm not going to post on it any more, I don't think. I have already posted too much.
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