London SlutWalk - now *11th*June, 1pm Trafalgar Square

[xes]

I'm also pretty sur that just becasue he's dead. you can still get convicted. You have admitted to rape, openly on a public forum. And I think i've found the perfect place to report it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why do you think you know more about my life and decisions than I do?

That's a laughable thing to say.

You, aged 18, had sex with your boyfriend during which you had an orgasm of a kind you had never had before, so you held him inside you while you were coming, during which time he also came, and that went against your previous decision that he would withdraw before coming.

You were both naive to think that the withdrawal method was a good idea. It never fucking is precisely because this kind of thing can happen. Your story is the perfect illustration of why it is naive and foolish to practise the withdrawal method.

Where am I saying 'I know more about your life and decisions than you'? Come on.

 

[ymu]

Where did i say, in that post or any fucking other, that all rapes get reported? You fucking clueless cunt. And you wonder why you get so much stick? fuck me.

It did rather follow from your insistence that I should be reported despite the victim not being at all bothered by it.

I apologise for misreading your mindless abuse as having some basis in reason.

 

[editor]

I'm also pretty sur that just becasue he's dead. you can still get convicted. You have admitted to rape, openly on a public forum. And I think i've found the perfect place to report it.

Good grief. I think some people need to step back from this thread.

 

[DrRingDing]

Nothing good will come out of this thread.

 

[revol68]

i was raped in my early 20's, I agreed to go for just a drink with an ex and we ended up having sex, despite the fact I'd clearly indicated I was only meeting up for a drink as friends.

or maybe the boundaries and consent were fluid and moved with events.

 

[Jonti]

Even rape demands intent.

By her account, ymu clearly had no *intent* to rape.

 

[Badgers]

Good grief. I think some people need to step back from this thread.

Please, let's do.

 

[revol68]

Good grief. I think some people need to step back from this thread.

not trying to start but you have continually came on this thread and highlighted and berated peoples post arguing with ymu and yet haven't once highlighted any of her ridiculous posts were she just makes up things other posters have said.

she just claimed xes said all rapes are reported a few posts back, which might explain his increasingly short tone with her.

 

[ymu]

That's a laughable thing to say.

You, aged 18, had sex with your boyfriend during which you had an orgasm of a kind you had never had before, so you held him inside you while you were coming, during which time he also came, and that went against your previous decision that he would withdraw before coming.

You were both naive to think that the withdrawal method was a good idea. It never fucking is precisely because this kind of thing can happen. Your story is the perfect illustration of why it is naive and foolish to practise the withdrawal method.

Where am I saying 'I know more about your life and decisions than you'? Come on.

You don't know that I was in a foreign country, nor that I was sexually assaulted by the only doctor I had access to when he prescribed me the pill, nor that it was largely irrelevant because I hadn't had a period in over a year, nor that an allergy to spermicide fucks you over for a coil anyway.

And you've ignored the fact that he was thirty eight. Quit the patronising irrelevant bullshit, please. Banning coitus interruptus isn't going to do much to prevent rape. Srsly.

 

[revol68]

It did rather follow from your insistence that I should be reported despite the victim not being at all bothered by it.

I apologise for misreading your mindless abuse as having some basis in reason.

how does it.

xes saying you should report yourself if you seriously think you carried out a rape in no way implies that all rapes are reported.

you went to oxford? fuck me pink.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Right, so it was a good idea, then?

Don't post up personal experiences on here if you don't want anybody else to comment on them. Despite all your provisos I still say that you were foolish and naive to do what you did. Self-evidently so given what subsequently happened.

 

[DrRingDing]

fuck me pink.

There's consent if I ever did hear it.

 

[DrRingDing]

Surely it's time for this depressing shite to be binned?

 

[ymu]

Even rape demands intent.

By her account, ymu clearly had no *intent* to rape.

That simply isn't true. Someone who has been raped by a sexsomniac has been raped. It doesn't make any difference that the rapist was asleep at the time, except that he will have a valid defence.

If you do not know that failure to withdraw is rape, then you can very easily rape without intent. Just like I did. Because I only ever got told about rapists as scary strangers, when it's almost always someone you know, and no one had a sensible discussion within earshot.

 

[Jonti]

As a point of fact, you are wrong. Almost all crimes demand *intent*, and rape is no exception.

IF there is a valid defence then the charge will not be upheld -- a not guilty verdict will be returned.

 

[ymu]

Right, so it was a good idea, then?

Don't post up personal experiences on here if you don't want anybody else to comment on them. Despite all your provisos I still say that you were foolish and naive to do what you did. Self-evidently so given what subsequently happened.

It wouldn't occur to me that someone might take a three line post and weave me such an elaborate life history, and then contradict me when I say it's wrong.

Did you need all that detail to get to a relevant point, because I am completely failing to see why it mattered so much to you. What is your point?

 

[spawnofsatan]

Mens Rea

 

[gavman]

Indeed. This discussion reminds me of the recent news report about an Arab man who was jailed for rape in Israel when he pretended that he was Jewish in order to seduce a Jewish woman. She found out he was not Jewish and he was then tried and imprisoned for rape.

In ymu's case the issue relates to reproductive control and family planning. How about a scenario where a woman wants a baby and thus sticks pins through the bf's condoms or "forgets" to take the pill? Is the woman in that situation guilty of rape? I don't think so. She may be guilty of a pretty serious and nasty deception, but not rape.

How about a case where a man wants a baby and his wife / gf does not? He secretly sticks pins through his condoms. Is he guilty of rape? How about if the issue is protection from STIs and the sex takes place with the agreement that a condom is used but he sneakily removes it. is that rape?

in some countries, yes.
sweden has a more nuanced legal response to rape. i only know of this from the coverage of julian assange's legal troubles. he is alleged to have committed an offence similar to what you describe, that is classed as a form of rape in sweden, but isn't an offence here

 

[ymu]

As a point of fact, you are wrong. Almost all crimes demand *intent*, and rape is no exception.

IF there is a valid defence then the charge will not be upheld -- a not guilty verdict will be returned.

Yeah, once more, I am talking about the impact on the victim, not the criminal justice system.

It is entirely possible to be devastated by a rape where the rapist was legally wholly innocent. It doesn't mean someone didn't experience rape.

 

[Jonti]

Mens Rea

Mens rea is Latin for "guilty mind". In criminal law, it is viewed as one of the necessary elements of a crime. The standard common law test of criminal liability is usually expressed in the Latin phrase, actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea, which means "the act does not make a person guilty unless the mind be also guilty".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

 

[revol68]

It wouldn't occur to me that someone might take a three line post and weave me such an elaborate life history, and then contradict me when I say it's wrong.

Did you need all that detail to get to a relevant point, because I am completely failing to see why it mattered so much to you. What is your point?

right so despite the fact the situation led to your (self proclaimed) raping of a man you take issue with the fact someone points out it wasn't the wisest course of action.

it's almost like you want to have the monopoly of experience that being a self proclaimed rapist will grant you on a board full off rape noobs whilst at the same time you get offended if anyone criticises you for the actions that led to this "rape".

you're a very weird woman.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It wouldn't occur to me that someone might take a three line post and weave me such an elaborate life history, and then contradict me when I say it's wrong.

I didn't weave you a life history. I repeated back to you the facts of the story as you had told them, along with a judgement that the two of you were naive. I stand by that judgement based on the simple fact that I think anyone relying on withdrawal as their method of contraception is being naive. Not saying it isn't an understandable thing to decide to do. Not at all. But it is naive. Your story is the perfect example of why.

 

[Jonti]

The principle of "actus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea" means you are not a rapist. And, come to that, it seems your partner at the time did not experience the event as any kind of rape either.

 

[xes]

Good grief. I think some people need to step back from this thread.

If this was a bloke admitting to raping someone, would you rather that it was reported?

 

[ymu]

I didn't weave you a life history. I repeated back to you the facts of the story as you had told them, along with a judgement that the two of you were naive. I stand by that judgement based on the simple fact that I think anyone relying on withdrawal as their method of contraception is being naive. Not saying it isn't an understandable thing to decide to do. Not at all. But it is naive. Your story is the perfect example of why.

Why did you need to pass judgement?

What difference does it make?

Why did you have to fill in gaps in the story?

Did it help you conclude anything useful or relevant?

Why do you do this?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I am trying to explain to you why I do not think what you did that day was rape. You brought this up, ffs.

You judge yourself to be a rapist. I judge you to be someone who acted naively.

 

[revol68]

Why did you need to pass judgement?

What difference does it make?

Why did you have to fill in gaps in the story?

Did it help you conclude anything useful or relevant?

Why do you do this?

you have serious mental problems, please find help.

 

[ymu]

I am trying to explain to you why I do not think what you did that day was rape. You brought this up, ffs.

You judge yourself to be a rapist. I judge you to be someone who acted naively.

And I never asked you or anyone else for judgement. I've said so repeatedly. But you know better anyway.

Is refusing to withdraw rape? Yes or no?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And I never asked you or anyone else for judgement.

So you provided your own judgement - 'I raped this man' - and expected everyone else to simply accept that as the right judgement?