Athos
Well-Known Member
What do you think that one tweet referring to Soros represents about her views (if only at that moment), then?
London Anarchist bookfair 2020
- Thread starter Treacle Toes
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What do you think that one tweet referring to Soros represents about her views (if only at that moment), then?
There is a big difference between acknowledging recuperation of struggle, which is what this is, with a claim that the actual struggle is controlled by elites with a secret global agenda.
Is he the real deal then? Not like these plastic anarchists who have the temerity to be asking him questions?
Well, given that we can presume that she was responding to a tweet making an anti-semitic conspiracy claim about Soros, I don't think her answer was all that bad - you know, pointing out that it's not just Soros but many capitalist elites which recuperate struggles etc. All that stuff about "secret global agenda" seem to be your words and not hers. Besides, if the OSF were funding these groups "in secret" then they're doing a pretty bad job at it, you know, prominently posting about it on their website and all.
Just to be clear, I don't entirely agree with the analysis either, but this seems to be nothing more than a bad faith attempt at smearing someone. Though Rob or someone else is free to change my view by presenting the context for that tweet, we're still waiting...
ska invita
back on the other side
Quite a lot from one tweet tbh. What it says:
That "transgenderism", what ever its exact origins (cant know for sure what murky swamp it all began in ) is not a grassroots movement but an ideology being spread by SOROS and other Rich Men purely in order to erode womens rights.
Its batshit
It's global because the money was given to groups over the world. It's secretive because the money was claimed to be for LGBT rights but the real intent is to destroy women's rights and silence them. And the other rich men she was talking about were presumably the other two mentioned in Biggs article which she tweeted, one of whom is actually a Jewish trans woman.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Quite a lot from one tweet tbh. What it says:
That "transgenderism", what ever its exact origins (cant know for sure what murky swamp it all began in ) is not a grassroots movement but an ideology being spread by SOROS and other Rich Men purely in order to erode womens rights.
Its batshit
Quite apart from the fact that I was asking someone else...
That post doesn't refer to 'transgenderism'. And it doesn't say that Soros (and other wealthy men) are the only backers; though it does make the point that financial backing from wealthy cis men means it's not a grassroots movement any more, which must be literally true - cis men like Soros aren't the grassroots of any trans movement. It doesn't say that the erosion of women's rights is those individuals' aim, but that it is the aim of a particular ideology (though we're can't be sure exactly what ideology she means, absent the post to which she's replying).
That's not to say I agree with her. But let's not misrepresent what she did actually say.
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Nobody said anything about intent though. When we say that the ruling class seeks to destroy nature we also don't mean they're in a secret conspiracy to pour capital into dirty industries deliberately so as to destroy nature and that their stated goal of a profit motive is just a front for their secret devious schemes.
"It seeks to erode" implies intent. And if someone was claiming that the ruling class seeks to destroy nature I'd tell them they were talking crap as well.
You can tell them it's crap as much as you want, but until you have a better argument I'm holding to the view that as long as environmentally unsustainable production is more profitable than sustainable production then that's exactly what the ruling class will seek to do. You know, capitalist production being undertaken for profit and the ruling class being the class deciding where productive capital gets allocated.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
It’s worth remembering that the way people use Twitter isn’t very clever. They re-post stuff from phones, ipads, pc’s etc without necessarily reading it all properly, skimming over bits, not reading all the subsequent comments etc. So it’s daft to pretend that they agree hook, line and sinker with everything they’ve retweeted.
Nor should we read sinister motives into people deleting tweets. They might have changed their minds, or had offending parts drawn to their attention, or have seen interpretations of text which they hadn’t seen before. Or something else entirely. Just because you disagree with somebody it doesn’t make all their actions sinister.
If I was up before the beak I would hate to be faced with a jury composed of some of the people posting here on urban. Talk about rush to judgement!
Nor should we read sinister motives into people deleting tweets. They might have changed their minds, or had offending parts drawn to their attention, or have seen interpretations of text which they hadn’t seen before. Or something else entirely. Just because you disagree with somebody it doesn’t make all their actions sinister.
If I was up before the beak I would hate to be faced with a jury composed of some of the people posting here on urban. Talk about rush to judgement!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
name names
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Well you could probably start with me if you wanted.
It's the millennial way. Helen Steel has bad opinions ergo she's a bad person therefore she's probably an anti semitic conspiraloon. Pitched at the correct gallery this will draw rapturous applause and cement my reputation as the guardian of all that is good and true.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i find it hard to believe you could be in the dock while simultaneously being numbered among the jury
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
It could be an administrative oversight.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you've talked yourself out of a job in the court office
Whilst it may give an indication of her thinking it's not that tweet that has led to controversy about Helen Steel is it?
No, it's a measure of the method of making an outcast from the tribe.
I don't think questioning someone's ideology or political views is equivalent to banishment. Whilst it may often socially manifest as something looking like a tribe, anarchism is a political movement, and not one that should apologise for potentially anti-semitic and absolutely transphobic conspiracy theories based on someone's past deeds or affiliations - precisely because we aren't, or shouldn't be a tribe.
I'm not sure if you're deliberately getting the wrong end of the stick. I'm saying that in actuality U.K anarchism is operating like a tribe rather than a political movement. HS has been declared anathema and now we can happily accuse her of anything we like no matter how flimsy the evidence.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
anarchists in this country never reach that sort of consensus on any matter.
I don't think that's true. She is being accused of being transphobic, and on this thread of pushing a conspiratorial narrative which may have an anti semitic element (whether intentional or not). I don't think those accusations are based on flimsy evidence but her deeds and words over the last couple of years. And that's all she's being accused of and a lot of people, myself included, have really tried to give her the benefit of the doubt before getting to this point.
Liked but it's not actually true. We achieved overwhelming consensus on one matter which was broken in about 2012 when someone from Sol Fed suggested we didn't go to the Wetherspoons after a demo because they were suspected of using workfare.
Be careful with Butchers. He has a hard on for proles with class consciousness but then has nothing but disdain when he meets them in the wilds; preferring instead to cosy up with the academic class.
Which isn’t a rare quality on the left tbh.
On the plus side the bookfair appears to be happening, Paddington Police station is squatted and there's a week of green anti-capitalist action planned for next week. Whilst those of us from a certain generation may be tearing our hair out about all this, it seems the young folk are just getting on with things.
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