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London Anarchist bookfair 2020

How is it moving goalposts to address the situation in Britain, ie. where Helen and everyone else here lives? You think Soros is aiding the "rapid spread of trans ideology" in ways which Helen would notice by paying for an intern in Brazil? You reckon a donation to the Marriage Equality Coalition in Taiwan was what she was referring to do you?

Fucking come on this is just sad, it's not the end of the world as we know it to admit that Helen has fallen down a weird internet hole and is now part of some dodgy shitposting about trans people. Happens all the time and especially in situations where people get hit with the full force of the internet outrage machine (Nina Power springs to mind). The only odd thing about it is how desperate people seem to be to say nothing's awry.
 
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Rob Ray said:
How is it moving goalposts to address the situation in Britain, ie. where Helen and everyone else here lives? You think Soros is aiding the "rapid spread of trans ideology" in ways which Helen would notice by paying for an intern in Brazil? You reckon a donation to the Marriage Equality Coalition in Taiwan was what she was referring to do you? Fucking come on this is just sad.
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No it isn't. In the absence of any context you're willing to show us you've twisted the meaning of that tweet virtually beyond recognition.
 
Ugh, fucking whatever. Have it your way, George Soros "funding the rapid spread of this ideology" refers to Taiwanese marriage laws, the fact not a penny has been spent in the UK is irrelevant, no anti-Semitism implied, Helen's fully sensible about trans issues, nothing to see here. Utterly pathetic.
 
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Rob Ray said:
Ugh, fucking whatever. Have it your way, George Soros "funding the rapid spread of this ideology" refers to Taiwanese marriage laws, no anti-Semitism implied, Helen's fully sensible about trans issues, nothing to see here. Utterly pathetic.
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What's the context of the tweet you're relying on? What was she replying to?
 
Red Sky said:
Beat me to it.
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Yeah I decided to just ignore it at first, as I mostly just wanted to congratulate him on the boldness of his bluff rather than really get involved in this whole thing again.

Red Sky said:
No it isn't. In the absence of any context you're willing to show us you've twisted the meaning of that tweet virtually beyond recognition.
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Note how that quoted tweet starts with "Not just Soros, but yes including him." clearly indicating that it was not Helen who brought up Soros in specific in this conversation but she was responding to someone else bringing him up. How convenient for Rob Ray to have forgotten to include the context, given that his argument at this point comes down to nothing more than "but look, she brought up specifically Soros once!"
 
It would be so cool if that previous tweet was Rob Ray himself stating "Soros funds trans advocacy organizations" to which Helen's tweet would be a reasonable continuation (explaining that it's not just Soros, that there are many backers, etc). That would be the bluff of the century!
 
Larry Noppius said:
It would be so cool if that previous tweet was Rob Ray himself stating "Soros funds trans advocacy organizations" to which Helen's tweet would be a reasonable continuation (explaining that it's not just Soros, that there are many backers, etc). That would be the bluff of the century!
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No doubt Rob Ray will soon quote the tweet to which she was replying, providing the context people here have asked to see. I mean, he'd have no reason not to, would he?
 
Athos said:
No doubt Rob Ray will soon quote the tweet to which she was replying, providing the context people here have asked to see. I mean, he'd have no reason not to, would he?
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My money's on that tweet saying "Soros funds trans advocacy organizations" (or words to that effect). I don't think it'll actually be from Rob Ray himself though because I do think that, even in the already unlikely event that it was he himself to have made it, he'd still be smart enough to use a pseudonym. It would be so damn cool if I were wrong on that last part though. Well, actually my money'd be on Rob never showing us that tweet but that not in any way shape or form stopping him from continuing to make the same assertions, but you get my point.
 
Larry Noppius said:
My money's on that tweet saying "Soros funds trans advocacy organizations" (or words to that effect). I don't think it'll actually be from Rob Ray himself though because I do think that, even in the already unlikely event that it was he himself to have made it, he'd still be smart enough to use a pseudonym. It would be so damn cool if I were wrong on that last part though. Well, actually my money'd be on Rob never showing us that tweet but that not in any way shape or form stopping him from continuing to make the same assertions, but you get my point.
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Quite telling that he provided a screen shot of that quote, shown out of context. Something that takes more effort than linking to it in the actual thread.
 
Surely the problem is the claim that trans rights is not a bottom up movement which has gained success due to the work of trans people themselves, changing attitudes towards gender nonconformity and sexuality as well as material underpinning factors, but instead it is a secretive top down movement funded by a clique of 'rich white men', and which is a front for a wider attempt to destroy women's rights and silence women's voices. You don't need to include Soros to recognise that is an analysis heavily drawing on anti-semitic sentiment.

By the same token Soros has funded projects exclusively for lesbians and gay men as well as umbrella LGBT groups. Were someone to claim that LGB gains were not a result of a bottom up movement and changing social/material conditions but instead a plot by several rich white men, including George Soros, to destroy heterosexuality then I doubt that there would be many on here defending it.
 
smokedout said:
Surely the problem is the claim that trans rights is not a bottom up movement which has gained success due to the work of trans people themselves, changing attitudes towards gender nonconformity and sexuality as well as material underpinning factors, but instead it is a top down movement funded by a clique of 'rich white men', and which is a front for a wider attempt to destroy women's rights and silence women's voices. You don't need to include Soros to recognise that is an analysis heavily drawing on anti-semitic sentiment.

By the same token Soros has funded projects exclusively for lesbians and gay men as well as umbrella LGBT groups. Were someone to claim that LGB gains were not a result of a bottom up movement and changing social/material conditions but instead a plot by several rich white men, including George Soros, to destroy heterosexuality then I doubt that there would be many on here defending it.
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I agree it's a ropey analysis (although elite gatekeeping does a lot to decide which grassroots social struggles get coverage and funding and which do not) but not sure why that would be anti semitic?
 
Red Sky said:
I agree it's a ropey analysis (although elite gatekeeping does a lot to decide which grassroots social struggles get coverage and funding and which do not) but not sure why that would be anti semitic?
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Well it's conspiracy theory that views the world, and world events as being secretly controlled by shadowy elites, which is a cornerstone of anti-semitic ideology.
 
smokedout said:
Well it's conspiracy theory that views the world, and world events as being secretly controlled by shadowy elites, which is a cornerstone of anti-semitic ideology.
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Anti semitic conspiracy theories are a subset of conspiracy theories rather than conspiracy theories being a subset of anti semitic thought .
 
smokedout said:
Well it's conspiracy theory that views the world, and world events as being secretly controlled by shadowy elites, which is a cornerstone of anti-semitic ideology.
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Having said that I've heard plenty of similar bollocks from some anarchos and associated types and I don't think it is a reason they should be banned from the bookfair. But surely the point is not what Helen thinks, but whether her, or those she attends with, would attempt to provoke a confrontation or hand out transphobic literature again.
 
smokedout said:
Well it's conspiracy theory that views the world, and world events as being secretly controlled by shadowy elites, which is a cornerstone of anti-semitic ideology.
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No it isn't. Since when are anarchists supposed to be oblivious to the existence of capitalism's recuperation of struggles?
 
Helen’s written some absolutely batshit and vile stuff on her facebook page that finally tipped me over from thinking it was worth sitting down with her to have a talk about this stuff one day and into actually no fuck this she’s too far gone.

She deleted some of those posts quite soon afterwards. I believe there’s screenshots of them around but the original posts have gone...
 
smokedout said:
Having said that I've heard plenty of similar bollocks from some anarchos and associated types and I don't think it is a reason they should be banned from the bookfair. But surely the point is not what Helen thinks, but whether her, or those she attends with, would attempt to provoke a confrontation or hand out transphobic literature again.
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By "provoke a confrontation" you mean whether she will sit on the ground whilst believing, and sometimes even saying, things the bookfair authorities would rather have her not, thereby "provoking" a "confrontation" with the bookfair MAT? Well I suppose that's up to the bookfair authorities and their MAT to answer.
 
Red Sky said:
I agree it's a ropey analysis (although elite gatekeeping does a lot to decide which grassroots social struggles get coverage and funding and which do not) but not sure why that would be anti semitic?
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Of course it's not. It's just a slur thrown at dissenting women to silence them.
 
Red Sky said:
Thanks to this thread I've discovered Twitter advanced search and unless I've cocked it up this is the only Tweet out of 29,000 where HS mentions Soros.
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There only needs to be one doesn't there? One tweet represents the ideas and belief/suggestions of a person at that moment for those reasons. People can whomever they are/were arrive to believe and share thoughts/beliefs etc.

Side note. I do not know Rob Ray personally but I do know who he is and some of the snide questioning of what he knows and how he knows is batshit frankly. On this thread, by some that I also know have no skin in the game, literally, geographically, professionally, motivation, activism and more.
 
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