London Anarchist bookfair 2020
- Thread starter Treacle Toes
- Start date
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
Something we can all agree on.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you're right, we should be reclaiming the streets from the yellow tories
There's nothing stopping us. I think a street presence that said fuck the lot of them could make gains now. We could be planning for the Oct XR thing, we don't have to abide by their wet tactics, we never used to fall in line like that.
I do sometimes wonder if all these splits, throwing hands in the air and bemoaning that young people are doing it wrong is sometimes used as quite a convenient excuse for burnt out inactive middle aged anarchos to stay being burnt out inactive middle aged anarchos rather than going out and organising within (and hopefully outside of, or beyond) the constraints and cultures of political conditions as they currently exist. Because there doesn't seem to be much chance of changing anything if all we're doing is whinging and sniping at each other online.
I do sometimes wonder if all these splits, throwing hands in the air and bemoaning that young people are doing it wrong is sometimes used as quite a convenient excuse for burnt out inactive middle aged anarchos to stay being burnt out inactive middle aged anarchos rather than going out and organising within (and hopefully outside of, or beyond) the constraints and cultures of political conditions as they currently exist. Because there doesn't seem to be much chance of changing anything if all we're doing is whinging and sniping at each other online.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
That could be true.
But when said burnt out inactive middle aged anarchos want to do something, try to to do something...
...how do the "young people" respond to us?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
The age/generational thing is really interesting, a few of us were chatting about it last night.
People can have been involved in politics (activism really) for quite a chunk of time (10 years was thrown about as a timescale) and during that time collective projects like anarchist groups, publishing books and pamphlets, discussion groups, street stalls, and affinity groups have all collapsed.
It's further fragmented into personal blogs, Twitter accounts, sub-cultural stuff, and it's also very possible (likely) that many people in the anarchist/activist scene have mostly conducted and discussed politics through online platforms with maybe the occasional attendance at a demo or picket.
In the city I live in almost everyone under 30 (maybe even a bit older) in the political scene has had no experience of mass collective struggle at all. No difficult discussion around strategy, no interacting with the public while they do street stalls, no being next to someone in a confrontation, etc etc. It creates a very different outlook and relationship to politics and others around you.
People can have been involved in politics (activism really) for quite a chunk of time (10 years was thrown about as a timescale) and during that time collective projects like anarchist groups, publishing books and pamphlets, discussion groups, street stalls, and affinity groups have all collapsed.
It's further fragmented into personal blogs, Twitter accounts, sub-cultural stuff, and it's also very possible (likely) that many people in the anarchist/activist scene have mostly conducted and discussed politics through online platforms with maybe the occasional attendance at a demo or picket.
In the city I live in almost everyone under 30 (maybe even a bit older) in the political scene has had no experience of mass collective struggle at all. No difficult discussion around strategy, no interacting with the public while they do street stalls, no being next to someone in a confrontation, etc etc. It creates a very different outlook and relationship to politics and others around you.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Thing is, I'm pretty keen on meeting with/talking to/doing stuff with the local groups that according to Twitter are active very near to me. But my god the fuckers are elusive!
That's another epidemic problem, social media accounts and websites run by one person masquerading as an active group.
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
This is one of my chief concerns as an organiser. I've seen a few "new waves" of organisers and everyone has spent half the time working out the basics once again. There is a lack of knowledge transferance going on for a variety of reasons and I think we all could be doing more to encourage yoot to be skilling up outside of the web shit and for the long in the tooth to be more pro-active in sharing those skills. This is more than the odd archive, it's involvement and doing.
It's not even like there arn't catalysts for action there just seems to be a sense of intrpidation for lack of a better word. Fear of fash or "the conseqeunes" does seem to neautor groups.
Bookfair is fucking miles away but it's something I'd like to try and counter there somewhat... idk how... a quick talk aint going to do it....fuck knows... I suppose working class activists have always had this issue, in some pub in the 80's were some radicals fromt he 60's complaining about how the kids just arn't doing it right and before them some aged communists ... idk... I thought the internet was supposed to just magically fix everything? Till then............
On a serious note it was suggested that a "second day" could be more on a organisers conferance of sorts, taking stock of the situation at the time and with a wide variety of groups present do some solid headstratching about planning for the following year...
It's not even like there arn't catalysts for action there just seems to be a sense of intrpidation for lack of a better word. Fear of fash or "the conseqeunes" does seem to neautor groups.
Bookfair is fucking miles away but it's something I'd like to try and counter there somewhat... idk how... a quick talk aint going to do it....fuck knows... I suppose working class activists have always had this issue, in some pub in the 80's were some radicals fromt he 60's complaining about how the kids just arn't doing it right and before them some aged communists ... idk... I thought the internet was supposed to just magically fix everything? Till then............
On a serious note it was suggested that a "second day" could be more on a organisers conferance of sorts, taking stock of the situation at the time and with a wide variety of groups present do some solid headstratching about planning for the following year...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
but as you say bookfair is fucking miles away and it's not cheap for people to have a weekend in london. will the usual calls for places for people to crash go out?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I'm always up for discussions about this stuff, but do accept the problems with it being London based and not that accessible to people with limited time and/or income.
Wonder if there's any mileage in localities putting on discussions in the few months leading up to the Bookfair, that then somehow feed in to the London one, or address some of the same questions and issues, or something like that?
Wonder if there's any mileage in localities putting on discussions in the few months leading up to the Bookfair, that then somehow feed in to the London one, or address some of the same questions and issues, or something like that?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I mean I'd love to see (and I think we desperately need) a coherent, organized, vibrant, dynamic, relevant, and combative anarchist movement/organization, as I'm sure everyone here would.
The question is how do we get from where we are now to there? Is it even possible, or is the anarchist movement currently more of an hindrance to this than a help?
The question is how do we get from where we are now to there? Is it even possible, or is the anarchist movement currently more of an hindrance to this than a help?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if this is representative or not but
1. the small reading group of young 'uns I was involved with briefly this year were pretty cagey about raising the trans stuff. Not in a hostile "oh this guy is really old so we'd better not talk about it" way. More like they realised that it is a bottomless pit of exhausting bile and there are other things to talk about instead which are more productive.
2. A comrade my age and I went for a pint and we also skirted around this issue. We have slightly different positions on it but are on the same page in pretty much every other respect. He was quite hesistant to discuss it all and so was I. But we had a good evening and are still friends. I felt like we had left the door open to maybe come back to it on another occasion.
I think (and this has been discussed here) that judging a thing by the looniest exponents of it on social media, is... bad.
Everyone knows that the way people portray their lifestyles on platforms like instagram is a lie. So why should anarcho-commie twitter politics be any different?
I have to say when I was a pissy Crass fan it was amazing having kids a few years older who seemed more sussed than me. And it was even more amazing going to the Bookfair and seeing people who were as old as my parents. Maybe it is up to us old fuckers to try and stop things become youth-subcultures by turning up and rattling our pillboxes and walking sticks.
Top Dog
Well-Known Member
You didn't respond to the point about Bf2020 blocking posters on their sm for raising concerns/making points. I'll assume that you missed it rather than you're good with that, but care to respond to that point in particular?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It also seems to be Bookfair 2020 in all the info so far. Has the Anarchist bit been dropped?
Also your minutes say:
"We want bookfair to be diverse and inclusive; we will make a point of inviting black and minority ethic networks as well as those with a focus on queer identity, sex work and other issues which sometimes take a back foot at these events."
Interested to know which anarchist black and minority ethnic networks and those that focus on queer identity are you going to invite?
Also your minutes say:
"We want bookfair to be diverse and inclusive; we will make a point of inviting black and minority ethic networks as well as those with a focus on queer identity, sex work and other issues which sometimes take a back foot at these events."
Interested to know which anarchist black and minority ethnic networks and those that focus on queer identity are you going to invite?
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
I would bloody hope so. We're not really going to be able to host everyone visiting but I imagine we'll create some sort of "find a bunk" post and tbh I'm quite to try and organise some sort of week long squatted social centre / bedding nearby... tho thats obviously not for everyone
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
Thats the problem with a London Bookfair being the "national" one... Once we're over this first one I'd be inclinded to have the same event flicker between Birmingham/Manchester and London on a six monthly basis, perhaps even with trips to Cardiff,Edinburgh, Belfast in rotation every other year. Working with local crews to add local flavour.
But I'm one of the folks who like to punch above our weight and get on with shit... tbh I think it's dire that we only see these events yearly and at that mostly in London.
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Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
I've addressed that several times on thread and I did in the comment you qoute.
"I blame the the sheer tirade of bullshit we take constantly across several platforms and reading people defending those we've blocked is disheartening. The only people we have blocked have been those spewing outright bigotry of the kind even those who have a more narrow sense of Transphobia would agree cross a line, it's... a weight if you get me."
Each and every block on the social media has been due to some overt act of trolling, transphobia or in a small minority a quick look on profiles too see the nature of commentors posting bigotry elsewhere.
We've been HIGHLY tolerate of people attacking us and I've personally responded to literaly hundreds of comments across several threads.
We arn't silencing debate or concern in these spaces and those who have been smart/erudite enough not to spew bigotry have encountered that.
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
We are distinctly Anarchist in nature, we have not used that name as a courtesy to LABC. Given we are already accused of a take over that seems the right move.
If they stated they didn't mind or had of endorsed we would os used the name. London Anarchist Bookfair, as far as I'm aware the organising collective has changed atleats once before in the 80's or something no?
Re; Invite lists, we're not making these public. sorry.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
You could easily insert "Anarchist" into the name of the event without calling "The London Anarchist Bookfair".
Also whyever wouldn't you be public about which groups you've invited?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Given these anarchist black and minority ethnic and queer networks are obviously public, and that hopefully they'll be at the Bookfair, and you have gone on about it being for the movement, why the problem with saying who's been asked to come?!
So, it's Bookfair 2020 then? No anarchist in the name? No strapline either? Don't you think there might be a slight issue with that?
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
Name:-
We've got four meetings and 5 months before our campaign begins in earnest. I'm sure 90% of our media will be differant and we'll have straplines and all the rest of it. I'm actually very very pro putting Anarchism in the name and putting the word out there. I guess watch this space, also hopefully LABC and ourselves find a more positive relationship or they say "use the name" or whatever. Our graphics are all rather early.
Invite lists:-
We've already had threats that people/groups would be contacts and TOLD not to go becuase we hate women etc etc etc. So primarily it's for there security. Second to this, we'd rather finalise said lists and send out all the emails at the same time, early in 2020 no doubt, so no point sending out half a list and finally, because we don't want any network to feel obliged or forced to partake or make stances etc etc, there will be many groups not wanting a stall for various reasons and thats ok. Last thing we need is people being accused of hating trans / hating women depending on your perspective for attending/not attending when really they were just busy on the day lol.
It's not standard for a bookfair to put out a "invite list" that I've ever seen btw
We've got four meetings and 5 months before our campaign begins in earnest. I'm sure 90% of our media will be differant and we'll have straplines and all the rest of it. I'm actually very very pro putting Anarchism in the name and putting the word out there. I guess watch this space, also hopefully LABC and ourselves find a more positive relationship or they say "use the name" or whatever. Our graphics are all rather early.
Invite lists:-
We've already had threats that people/groups would be contacts and TOLD not to go becuase we hate women etc etc etc. So primarily it's for there security. Second to this, we'd rather finalise said lists and send out all the emails at the same time, early in 2020 no doubt, so no point sending out half a list and finally, because we don't want any network to feel obliged or forced to partake or make stances etc etc, there will be many groups not wanting a stall for various reasons and thats ok. Last thing we need is people being accused of hating trans / hating women depending on your perspective for attending/not attending when really they were just busy on the day lol.
It's not standard for a bookfair to put out a "invite list" that I've ever seen btw
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
If I was organising an event I doubt I’d feel obliged to post up a list of invited people or disinvited people to a hostile Internet forum tbh.
Treacle Toes
Time
Of course you wouldn't, nor would most people here.
The hoops that people are expecting Rhyddical to jump through on this thread are pretty shit.
There is a load of 'what about?' and 'what ifs', demands for x. y, z information. The organisers don't owe anyone here their undivided attention and answers to every sneery or unreasonable question they can come up with.
I doubt half the people here will even go to the bookfair tbh and are merely indulging their daily theoretical discussion fix.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Indeed.
It's probably not a great idea to use your invite list as proof of anything then.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
They don't owe us anything.
But it is, genuinely, good to be having this discussion as it is bringing up some useful points as it rumbles along.
I hope to go, as I have before. Hence me raising questions regarding logistics.
Rhyddical
May or may not look sexy in Hi Vis.
Ah point of confusion.
The list on our website is one of groups that contacted us asking for a stall/workshop etc or who we've directly spoken to as part of our standard organising.
They form a diverse bunch, primarily Anarchistic.... thus I would think a reasonable response to the question I was asked.
Honestly don't mind questions such as this, if anything they MAKE us discuss things and discover boxes we need to tick and such.
PS. I don't think this is a hostile forumn you're all lovely and I hope to win you all over with my amazing charm offensive and hoop jumpng skillz ;p
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Fair enough.
ska invita
back on the other side
Great effort ... Considering how many words get typed out everyday on the net I'm not sure it changes people's opinions all that much, but nonetheless good luck with it all.
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