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London Anarchist bookfair 2020

Athos said:
Rat might know him.

Or might have looked at his profile, where he's shown as 'Male.' :facepalm:
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Sounds like the Jessie Dog issues of a few years back where a poster was shockingly found to be neither female nor a dog. I always assumed Rhyddical was a she rather than a he. Must be a word for it. I suppose "wrong" will do.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
At the risk of derailing the thread, a friend just posted Ian Walker’s observations of the London anarchist scene from 1979:

https://standupandspit.wordpress.com/2019/11/09/anarchy-in-the-uk/
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Cheers for the link. I don't recall seeing this article at the time and it's interesting reading it now.

The articles obvious purpose was an attempt to 'explain' the anarchist scene against the background of the Persons Unknown trial, which had briefly raised its visibility. Perhaps to state the obvious, given that context, it should be stressed that it's based on talking to those people who were prepared to talk to Mr Walker.

The Police investigation that began in the spring of '78 and which led to the Persons Unknown trial was a pretty intensive business involving a lot of raids. While it would not really be accurate to say that the scene was on lockdown as a result, by late '79 most people were very cautious about outsiders and journalists. (The other side of this was that during the investigation and trial a significant, and somewhat unusual, degree of co-operation developed amongst existing groups, including some which had been estranged for much of the 70s. However that didn't involve being open to strangers. I recall P & M who founded 121 in Brixton telling me that part of the motivation for setting up their own project was how unwelcoming the anarchist scene was when they arrived in London at that time).

So I wouldn't take the article as a very reliable sketch of the anarchist scene as a whole.

As one example I was a little surprised to read about the Solidarity meeting. My perception at the time, as someone who read their stuff and was interested, was that at the end of the 70s (in contrast to earlier years) London Solidarity had no public presence at all. When events kicked off in Poland in 1980-81 they seemed to suddenly burst into life as if they had come out of hibernation. In '79 they were certainly not as active in the wider 'libertarian movement' as they had been in the past.

The mention of Ramsey and Bread 'n Roses made me chuckle. The Bread 'n Roses typesetting collective were close to the collective which had produced Zero Magazine during 1977-78. At the start of '78 the Zero collective (who amongst other things had design and production skills), and the collective which produced Anarchy Magazine (who had their own garage press), had discussed jointly squatting premises and combining their resources. This all fell apart at a conference in the spring of '78 when members of Zero Collective, who had taken up anarcha-feminist positions, strongly denounced other sections of the anarchist movement. There was certainly no shortage of 'beat generation' arseholes among other kinds of misogynists around at the time who deserved everything they got. However in the time honoured way the most intense fire was directed at people much closer at hand, including some, like Anarchy, who IMO didn't really deserve it.

(As the first public manifestation of this row died down in one conference room, another row could be heard next door. This turned out to have been caused by an idiot, who subsequently aligned himself with Zero, who was giving a presentation about how Heidegger was really an anarchist. He was being shouted down by members of the embryonic Monday Group one of whose founders was in the Anarchy collective).

The rift between Anarchy and Zero became quite acrimonious, and had some long term consequences, including the decision by Anarchy to take on a commercial sublet rather than squat when starting up Little @ printers. In hindsight I rather doubt the two groups would have found it easy to work together, even if they hadn't fallen out. However the row was not of long duration. Zero ceased publishing later in '78, and the spirit of widespread co-operation during the Persons Unknown events led to a suspension of hostilities.

Not before Ramsey was heard publicly stating that a member of the Anarchy Collective had been in the Angry Brigade. This crossed a clearly defined line, and the person named went round and thumped him.

A while ago discussing the recent Bookfair rows with an old friend the Anarchy-Zero row came up as a point of comparison. We agreed the differences between them were far greater than any points in common. (The most substantial one we could see being the tendency of some anarchists (and political activists in general), then and now, to relate to other struggles - of feminists in the 70s, of the Trans communities more recently - as overwhelmingly an issue of political positioning).

The 70s were very unlike the present day, and IMO there are very significant differences between anarchist currents then and now. (If that looks like it might be some kind of defence of the past it's really not intended to be). But some things haven't changed quite as much, and one of them is that liberal sketch writers may produce interesting texts but generally don't produce very reliable history.
 
imposs1904 said:
A bit unfair to characterize Walker as a liberal sketch writer. Immediately before writing for New Society, he was part of the collective that produced The Leveller magazine.
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Known to some of us at the time as The Groveller, and in the context of the Persons Unknown trial the publication whose writer about the trial seemed the most determined to take an 'independent-minded' and 'objectively' hostile approach to the defendents. I fear I must plead guilty to still holding my own biases towards it.

I didn't mean 'liberal sketch writer' as anything other than a statement of fact. But now you point that background out...

:D
 
Lurdan said:
Known to some of us at the time as The Groveller, and in the context of the Persons Unknown trial the publication whose writer about the trial seemed the most determined to take an 'independent-minded' and 'objectively' hostile approach to the defendents. I fear I must plead guilty to still holding my own biases towards it.

I didn't mean 'liberal sketch writer' as anything other than a statement of fact. But now you point that background out...

:D
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Fair enough. :D

Before my time but I've always had a soft spot for Walker, and as he's no longer around to defend himself I feel contractually obliged to pipe up for him whenever he gets a mention.
 
kenny g said:
Most pertinent and useful wake up call from 40 years ago.
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In that it reminds us the anarchist movement has always had loads of grumpy sectarians shouting at each other and they shouldn't be taken too seriously by people keen to actually get things done?
 
kenny g said:
Sounds like the Jessie Dog issues of a few years back where a poster was shockingly found to be neither female nor a dog. I always assumed Rhyddical was a she rather than a he. Must be a word for it. I suppose "wrong" will do.
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Pretty sure they identified themselves as female on this thread...:confused:
 
Don't recall Ramsey, ( correct spelling) but not his real name, cos he got the monicker Ramsey cos he played a bit of (not very good) keyboards) after Ramsey Lewis, being thumped by anyone. He's now in NZ, but I am in contact with him and will ask him. The Ian Walker article is pretty dire and derisory, . I knew all of the people mentioned BTW. Just a nasty bit of very snide journalism
 
charlie mowbray said:
Don't recall Ramsey, ( correct spelling) but not his real name, cos he got the monicker Ramsey cos he played a bit of (not very good) keyboards) after Ramsey Lewis, being thumped by anyone. He's now in NZ, but I am in contact with him and will ask him.
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I'm sure there's another side to the story and it would be interesting to hear it. I was at the conference but not the 'thumping', and recalling that my ageing and entirely fallible memory isn't always to be trusted in matters of 40 year old movement gossip I pulled out my copies of Zero and Anarchy :

From Zero 7 (cover dated Aug/Sept '78)
rWnPEpH.png

And in Anarchy 27 (undated but evidently late summer/autumn '78)
ISURrMI.png

I guess we can at least take heart from the fact that however uncomradely things sometimes seem today at least it's not like the bad old days. From a book review in Anarchy 38 (undated - 1986?)
S7NbCLz.png
 
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That article in Anarchy is appalling. Di Giovanni was a nasty individualist shit, and the editor of La Protesta that he murdered was actually on the left of anarcho-syndicalism. Whoever wrote that piece should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
 
rat said:
And why does he use such corny lingo in his posts?
Very unconvincing
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Corny Lingo? I maybe scarred for life here.

Who am I trying to convince? What am I trying to convince them off?

I created a personal Twitter so that I could liase with the various contributors to to Organise! and yes, even attendees of Bookfair 2020, so it's sort of helpful to have that in the bio no? I mean shame on me for the odd hot take but to be honest I think it's really just a bit of accountability and openness.

Speaking of accountability? Did you actually make a new account to ressurect a dead thread and spew some ad hom? Atleast you chose the right name eh?


(Actually edit that. Rats are lovely fluffy little fuckers and I've no hate for 'em ;p )
 
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Anyways, let's address the comment there about ID Politics, because it's an imporant one, this is just my hot take to be fair tho I suspect we'll put a FAQ type response up that's a little better written and from "the collective".

It's a stickler isn't it. How to involve your black comrades, gay comrades, trans comrades etc without someone turning around and saying that their presence is detracting from the revolutionary working class anarchism.

Like quite literally their very presence. It's a shitty thing and it happens.

All the more if they dear to talk about specific aspects of oppression that affect them due to their skin tone, sexuality, gener etc etc

Idpol is a very real problem in the oprganiser scene, but also a quick way to undermine someone who faces issues around an aspect of their identity.

Let us be clear. We have no time for identity based politics, I don't think anyone in the collective has expressed a political base in the cross class bullshit of formed and organised Identiity politics, if they did, we'd probably let them know that this isn't going to be a positive space for them to organise in. However to steal a good line from the AF's Principles "We believe that fighting systems of oppression that divide the working class, such as racism and sexism, is essential to class struggle. Anarchist communism cannot be achieved while these inequalities still exist. In order to be effective in our various struggles against oppression, both within society and within the working class" So when we had some Anarchism comrades approach us and say they feel alienated from the movement, and given that the fallout from 2017 generated the same sentiment we feel obliged to take that seriously.

As the host for a major Anarchist event, how do we approach making an event more welcoming to comrades whose perhaps most imminant concern is one of identity? How do we provide a space for discussion and development without dictating the voice of others?

We have to have a relativelyy open foroum, encourage a bit of political osmosis perhaps? Try to ensure our voice doesn't come from a single source / position? Those seem like relatively good Anarchistic manners no?

We have no intention of hosting stalls with an IdPol basis but we will not reject the concerns of alientated comrades out of hand, that's only going to maintain this ugly rift in our communities.

Revolutionary working class Anarchism is - I hope - strong enough to get the fuck over itself and stop latching onto the priggishness that means a quick death for the movement.

There will be black anarchists, there will be queers anarchists, there will be trans anarchists and probably a hole bunch of people not quite "Anarchist" enough for some others but you know what, it's the people who are locking into IDPol, or who are a bit Tankie or AnCappy that we need to be winning over (I say a bit mind lol) These are folks who got into movements that are problematic and they've made the effort to come and here some of the differant opinions.


If you are expecting a bookfair with only Anarchist Communists present, all of whom have passed the purity tests and answer the interview questions right then you are going to be a bit disappoint, sorry.

Alternatively, why don't we actually ressurect the chat with something useful? I would love to hear your thoughts on how such an event can provide a welcome to Anarchist comrades who feel alienated due to such issues without letting any IdPol BS slip through the net? The two commentors from the LABC in particular, would love to hear your thoughts and like I say, the offer of a coffee and a friendly chit chat stands. We're not here to be aggy and have drama, We're here to put on a cracking bookfair for all and I recon we could better do that if we all acted like comrades every now and again eh?

(apologies for anything corny ;p)
 
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Corkey, didn't see a whole other page.

Thanks for the link/article, love a good read and learn a bit more everyday.



Just for a bit of rumour control.... Yes I am male - fecking shocker -

My name is Peter as it says on my Twitter account. Kept that hidden didn't I.

Any more personal information you'd like to share about me on the notable - open to everyone - Anarchist forum where I've stated I'm organising a bit of a to-do?

Some of you have met me, (as have atleast 2/3 other people on channel), you know who I am and no doubt can recollect a few more personal details. Fancy linking my facebook or giving my email addy maybe or link any of my other wee enterprises while you're at it?

I'm sure it would help Rat or any other budding internet slouths - like the posse we've pick up from mumsnet - out a bunch eh?

Maybe being a tad dramatic there sure but that bit of mild doxxing of a uncomradely nature doesn't quite sit with me very well.

We'll have to have a workshop on Security Culture and how the little things pile up eh?
 
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Rhyddical said:
How to involve your black comrades, gay comrades, trans comrades etc without someone turning around and saying that their presence is detracting from the revolutionary working class anarchism.

Like quite literally their very presence. It's a shitty thing and it happens.
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Does this happen? I've never heard a single anarchist suggest anything even approaching that. And I'd be amazed if you could reliably cite a single example.

It's a strawman. I don't know a single anarchist who doesn't recognise the importance to anarchism of rejecting those things that might otherwise divide the working class.
 
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butchersapron said:
Rather disingenuous elision of stalls/organisers/events/core and attendees above in the purity test nonsense.
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Sorry, not really sure I follow you.

Assuming you have an issue with one or more of the attendees so far? Care to specify?

More than happy to hear any concerns.
 
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