Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[dylans]

Some interesting twitter posts from the Guardians Martin Chulov

martinchulov Martin Chulov
Saw pics of a scud missile seized by rebels today. Three more now in opposition hands near Benghazi.

Fishermen at Benghazi port said 2 boats traveling west hit by missiles filed from Sirte. That rules out Tripoli by sea then.

Rebels over-ran Zawiya west of Tripoli. vital breakthrough. Only Sirte in central #libya stopping them joining from west.

Visited mil bases on road to central Libya. amount of weapons stolen staggering. These revolutionaries v well armed. #libya

The Ghaddafi stronghold of Sirte is preventing people traveling west to Tripoli. Could be last place in #Libya to fall.

 

[butchersapron]

A few words of warning about the 'opposition' - note that the Libyan ambassador to the US is already asking for form recognition of the 'interim govt'!

What Does the Libyan Opposition Want?

Who else are involved in the formation of this interim government? First of all, other high-ranking defectors, both "civilian and military," from the Gaddafi regime. The aforementioned Libyan ambassadors and other diplomats who have come out against the regime will represent it abroad. Opposition tribal leaders are naturally part of it, too. Is the NCLO, too? That remains to be seen, but the odds are strong that its members will get their piece of the post-Gaddafi Libyan pie one way or another.

What might be the politico-economic philosophy of the interim government? The Gaddafi regime's neoliberal turn is well known, and the defectors will probably bring it with them. As for the opposition in exile, the following excerpt from a report on a 1994 conference of Libyan exiles including the NFSL, hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, may give us a clue of their orientation: "Most participants argued for privatization and a strong private sector economy. . . . [Economist Misbah] Oreibi warned that many of the big public sector enterprises will simply have to be shut down and the losses absorbed because they will never be profitable." It is hard not to conclude that the marriage of old exiles and recent defectors is likely to result in a doubly neoliberal offspring.

 

[Idris2002]

It's as I feared: Eritrean refugees in Libya are catching hell because they happen to be the same colour as the mercs.

At least that's what the link says. It also points out that these people have no where to go, and no government to speak up for them. The Eritrean government would most likely torture and kill them if they went home.

 

[dylans]

It's as I feared: Eritrean refugees in Libya are catching hell because they happen to be the same colour as the mercs.

At least that's what the link says. It also points out that these people have no where to go, and no government to speak up for them. The Eritrean government would most likely torture and kill them if they went home.

This is a disgrace

Less than a month ago, twenty-seven Eritrean Refugees moved from Tripoli to Rabesh Gedima, in Benghazi, to work for a company. Following the popular uprising, a group of people broke into the company where the Eritrean Refugees were staying and attacked them with iron bars, knives and machetes critically injuring three of them. Robel and Yared went out searching for medicines for the wounded but they were shot dead by armed citizens. Now the remaining twenty-five people, including the wounded, are hiding underground in a certain location in Benghazi with no food, water supplies or medicines. How long will it be before they are discovered and attacked?

The group had approached the British rescue ship that has been sent to Bengazhi port to evacuate British nationals asking them to assist in their evacuation, but they had refused.

Article here on this. African mercenaries in Libya fact or racism?
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m75380&hd&size=1&l=e&fb=1

The "mercenary" hype in Libya is already causing attacks on Africans. A Turkish construction worker told the 'BBC': "We had 70-80 people from Chad working for our company. They were cut dead with pruning shears and axes, attackers saying: 'You are providing troops for Ghaddafi.' The Sudanese were also massacred. We saw it for ourselves."

Meanwhile, more worrying reports are coming from Libyan protesters, seemingly convinced African "mercenaries" are the main enemy. Only yesterday, a video was distributed over the internet showing the distribution of heavy arms to protesters to "defend themselves against mercenaries."

But not all Libyan protesters pronounce hatred towards the "mercenaries". A recent video documents how protesters protect an alleged mercenary from a lynching mob after capturing him. And from the "liberated" Kufra Oasis, Libyan youths as their first action helped a large number of stranded Chadians to return to their country.

 

[elbows]

So the regime escorted journalists to a town that is in the hands of rebels? On sky the journalists in Zawiyah are saying they intend to return to Tripoli. So is Gaddafi now allowing journalists to freely travel to rebel territory now? and what happens to their "minders"? Arrested? Sounds very odd.

Peter Beaumont said the following which was reported on the Guardial live updates page:

When I said to our minders that I was baffled that they should take us to a rebel-held town, they said: "We don't want you to think we're hiding anything."

As for the immigrants/race/mercenary stuff, its terrible to hear that our fears on this matter were well founded. There are good-news stories here and there too, so dont want to get carried away, but it doesnt sound good. I also suspect that many of the people who were fighting were already in the country before trouble began, and were part of long established military/security forces rather than being mercenaries.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

I hear there's fight but who's fighting who? the army=broke away army or the army=protestors

 

[elbows]

Its been pretty much confirmed that a Libya government jet did indeed go to Belarus, stayed for a while and then returned to Tripoli yesterday. Unlike the stories about jets that were refused permission to land in some other countries, there has been no word on who might have been onboard.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Even if they did find a nation to host them I would find it extremely unlikely that the UN or US or would allow them a peaceful retirement like Ben Ali has in Saudi Arabia

 

[Anudder Oik]

From Al Jazeera today.

11:28am

Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley, reporting from the eastern city of Benghazi, says people in the city "realise that at the end of the day, they are going to be responsible for the liberation of their entire country and they are taking steps to do that".

"There was a big meeting of the former justice minister who is leading this process and the tribal elders," he said.

"If anything signals the downfall of Gaddafi it's the fact that these tribes are coming together and they're showing unity and solidarity."

So, an opposition leadership is taking shape that may not be palatable for the protestors once Gaddafi goes, and they realise that they must take the inititiative to end the situation.

Another thing. What is it with people who get all upset with the reports of African mercenaries? And appear to have this knee jerk reaction as though it's a racist rumour?

There are numerous reports and videos of Black African mercenaries. Accept it.

 

[Idris2002]

I don't recall anyone here rejecting the reports of African mercs out of hand.

 

[elbows]

Another thing. What is it with people who get all upset with the reports of African mercenaries? And appear to have this knee jerk reaction as though it's a racist rumour?

There are numerous reports and videos of Black African mercenaries. Accept it.

If you actually read what has been written here on this subject for about a week I think you would see that you are oversimplifying things in an unhelpful way. There are numerous issues at work here. There are Libyans who are black. There are black people with dual nationality or who have ben given citizenship that have been part of Libyan forces for ages. There are lots of immigrant workers who have nothing to do with the violence. There may be mercenaries too, though its unclear how many or whether they arrived only in recent weeks. All of these things have got mixed together and combined with other factors such as fear, rumour, and some Libyans not wanting to believe that other Libyans would shoot at the protesters.

 

[teqniq]

So, an opposition leadership is taking shape that may not be palatable for the protestors once Gaddafi goes, and they realise that they must take the inititiative to end the situation.

Another thing. What is it with people who get all upset with the reports of African mercenaries? And appear to have this knee jerk reaction as though it's a racist rumour?

There are numerous reports and videos of Black African mercenaries. Accept it.

with all due respect you need to re-read Idris's + dylans posts above. It is not an issue with mercenaries per se but rather attacks and killings of legitimate construction workers.

 

[elbows]

Some media reports from the west today paint a picture that the roads to the east of Tripoli have very many checkpoints with tanks & anti-aircarft weapons. Maybe the limited number of forces controlled by the regime mean that they are fully occupied securing these routes, and done have the additional capacity necessary to make stronger attempts to regain the western locations that have fallen from their clutches. Todays twitter rumours largely centre on fears that attacks on the likes of Misrata and Zawiyah are coming, but nothing seems to have materialised yet, I guess these fears are based on expectation rather than any evidence on the ground, although as Zawiyah sounds like it is surrounded by regime troops the situation is hardly relaxing.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, possibly used in the same way that Gadaffi previously allowed imported pakistani labourers to be forced into (and used as scapegoats) in his Islamic legion.

 

[dylans]

Another thing. What is it with people who get all upset with the reports of African mercenaries? And appear to have this knee jerk reaction as though it's a racist rumour?

There are numerous reports and videos of Black African mercenaries. Accept it.

It's not a knee jerk reaction to recognise that in a country like Libya, a country with a history of racist violence against black Africans (including pogroms only a few years ago) that claims that the killings are carried out by "Africans" should be treated with suspicion. No one is ruling it out. Gaddafi is a very eccentric dictator and nothing is beyond him, however I ask for evidence of such claims and frankly I haven't seen anything that convinces me yet.

I have seen photos of African passports and footage of a few sorry souls in prisons. . But what do they mean? There are (were) hundreds of thousands of African workers in Libya and the possession of passports and a few sad faces in prisons does not prove the existance of mercs. I have seen footage of soldiers, some of whom are black but you are aware that many Libyans are black too. One thing that is disturbing about this language of "African mercenaries" is what the term really means. All Libyans are Africans but when we hear about African mercenaries what we are really hearing about is black mercenaries.

The fact remains that I have yet to see convincing evidence of claims of African mercenaries and believe me I have looked very hard. Every single news report I have read and every single image I have seen is either dubious or inconclusive or could be explained as other than what it is claimed to be. Given the extremely dangerous situation of thousands of innocent African civilians in the country who are in real danger of death due to these rumours, it is reasonable that we DO NOT SIMPLY ACCEPT IT but investigate the truth or otherwise of such claims while insisting on respect for the human rights of those innocent Africans who may be wrongly accused.

There is a very widespread and dangerous trope being played upon when Libyans accuse Gaddafi’s crimes of being committed by “African Mercenaries”, hints of which are being picked up in the foreign media.

CNN has just prominently shown a Libyan woman, tear stained, crying out on the newly liberated streets of Egypt. She calls for justice for her people, for the killing to end, begs Obama to intervene, and then repeats “Gaddafi is killing us with his Africans!” She is not alone in arranging this revolution between the Libyan people on one side, and Gaddafi, his family, and dark-skinned “outsiders” on the other.

For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the use of a map, Libyans are Africans. But Africans here means “black people” and there is a very long very pernicious racism in their part of the world towards “black Africans”, not unlike that in my part of the world. When I see tweets like the following, I cringe. I also see a history of fear and contempt slipping out in a time of unparalleled suffering.

"Gadafi is ordering african mercenaries to break into homes in #Benghazi to RAPE Libyan women in order to detract men protesters"

NEW! #Gaddafi has given the African Mercenaries full freedom in raping Libyan women. #Libya

Now the above tweets are really quite disturbing. They contain all the classical elements of racist discourse. Black men unleashed to rape "our" women. It fits into the historical narrative of racist language so well and so chillingly that I can not but be suspicious
http://tomathon.com/mphp/2011/02/libyas-african-mercenary-problem/

 

[bi0boy]

Is Nouri Al Misrahi a reliable source in this? The article also quotes defector Air Force Major Rajib Feytouni: http://allafrica.com/stories/201102250009.html

 

[elbows]

Differences of opinion within the Benghazi national council already, via the Guardian:

3.01pm: Some clarification from anti-Gaddafi forces in Benghazi, where the revolt began, on that interim government. They say the National Libyan Council they have formed is not an interim government but the "face of the revolution". At a news conference, they said an interim government announced by the former justice minister was his own "personal view". Reuters reports that a spokesman for the new council said he saw no room for any negotiation with Gaddafi's government. One of Gaddafi's son's, Saif al-Islam, has offered to start talks with the opposition.

 

[Anudder Oik]

All Libyans are Africans but when we hear about African mercenaries what we are really hearing about is black mercenaries.

Libyans are arabs.

 

[elbows]

Is Nouri Al Misrahi a reliable source in this? The article also quotes defector Air Force Major Rajib Feytouni: http://allafrica.com/stories/201102250009.html

Nouri is the guy I mentioned some days ago who looks like some kind of Bond villain. In any case, what he says paints a picture that this stuff has been going on for years, so I'm not really sure how appropriate the term mercenary is.

The mercenaries from African countries, he said, were poor and homeless former soldiers who were easily recruited over the years.

As for the other source, perhaps many have been flown in very recently, I dont place too much faith in these reports but even if they are true they did a shit job considering how quickly Benghazi was lost by the regime.

 

[dylans]

Libyans are arabs.

Yes they are. Take a look on a map. They are also Africans

 

[elbows]

The Benghazi internet tv channel has an english speaker on at the moment, inviting skype calls.

http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb

 

[elbows]

Hilarious footage on that channel moments ago, a youth dressed as Gaddafi doing an impression, complete with unbrella, only wish I knew what he was saying.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

ibya: AlArabiya: AbdulFatah Yunus warns of a massacre about to happen in Masrata; Gaddafi has dispatched heavily armed military units from sirt

from the above link... troops were seen leaving Tripoli as well. :/

Confirmed eyewitness accounts in Mrabat-Misrata confirm that regime helicopters are circling above radio station.

 

[elbows]

The state TV news channel is currently speaking in English!

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b1951.htm

 

[lopsidedbunny]

The Broadcast station in Misrata providing information on behalf of the protesters is under attack from the air #Libya #Feb17(Uh-oh)

 

[lopsidedbunny]

in Musrata airport there is fighting but need to confirm

 

[lopsidedbunny]

britishabroad British Abroad by malaikamakena#Libya We understand there is a German ferry leaving Ras Lanouf at 11:00am tomorrow on which British nationals will be accepted.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

A break away General of some sorts says that the "telling the oil companies that their positions are safe" "and oil companies money" lots of comments about his moustache.

----

1Seabiscuit Maria BREAKING: #Misrata broadcast house was not damaged by the attempted air strikes, No reports of Martyrs

 

[lopsidedbunny]

FreeBenghazi Libya.elHurra Colonel: All the citizens of Jaol and other oasis made an oath to protect the city, children and the elderly… (cont) http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/FreeBenghazi/~qAOPj

 

[lopsidedbunny]

FreeBenghazi Libya.elHurra Colonel: #Jaol is in contact with the committee in #BEnghazi, they are welcome by the chief of committee. htt… (cont) http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/FreeBenghazi/~NQnFl