dylans
overlord of all acorns
only because they have been pushed back by its citizens. The west will not leave things at that however will they? We can expect a fresh wave of air attacks on that city.
Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement
- Thread starter ernestolynch
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only because they have been pushed back by its citizens. The west will not leave things at that however will they? We can expect a fresh wave of air attacks on that city.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Indeed, all I have seen is a collection of ner-do-wells in a variety of pick-up trucks toting heavy machine guns and private cars armed with AK47s. They seem to drive enthusiastically forward until they are fired on by Gaddafi forces at which point they turn and flee back the way they came.
I don't see any military that may have defected and I don't see any discernable strategy. It seems the plan is to drive along the coast road until contact with the enemy and then retreat.
It seems the idea that the rebels had 100 tanks, was probably just an idea, there seems no basis to it at the moment.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I am not sure that they even got as far as Sirte in the last days, I think they went through Ras Lanuf and shortly after that were repelled by Gaddafi's forces.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
Having trodden in this dogshit we now need the traditional post-colonialist exit strategy of partition-and-fuck-off.
Never fails to succead.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
They got to 50 kilometres of Sirte before being pushed back on monday
elbows
Well-Known Member
And how do you know they were pushed back by citizens? Citizens with heavy weapons? How about you save the word siege for when there actually is a siege?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I would never call the rebels saints. It would indeed be naive to suppose that in a revolutionary situation that atrocities wouldn't be committed. The point is to not to have this institutionalised like currently exists in Gadaffis army.
Yes, there are obvious problems with in regards to Sirte and other towns that, on the whole, remain loyal to Gadaffi. This would explain why airstrikes have stopped around the eastern areas of fighting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/30/libya-middle-east-syria-bahrain-yemen#block-3
dylans
overlord of all acorns
On Monday Rebels were fighting for Sirte. Several news agencies reported that the resistance in Sirte was by armed civilians. NATO has announced the use of close air support gunships AC 130s, weapons designed for attacking in urban warfare. Sirte has sustained air raids, was facing rebel attack and was the next town to be taken.
Ok the situation is fluid and rebels have been pushed back. Nevertheless it is reasonable to assume that Western planners are planning to reverse that situtation. If Sirte is not under siege right now, it pretty much was on monday and will be again shortly. Either way there is no doubt that Sirte has to fall for the rebellion to reach Tripoli. This will be carried out with airstrikes.
My point is how is the situation of Sirte, a town resisting being overrun by hostile forces, any different to the situation that Benghazi faced?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I think Dylans is wrong about Tripoli being a bastion of support for Gadaffi, but if he does have popular support anywhere in Libya it will be in Sirte; and yes, that does present quite obvious issues around the role of UN forces in this conflict. Issues that I don't think have been resolved yet within the allied countries currently enforcing the aerial-based campaign. The question that they are asking out loud now is, Well who the fuck are the rebels? The answer they get will be dependent on the role of the foreign military in the coming months
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
This all feels weirder by the day. Absolutely no one is offering remotely usuable information, obviously including the news channels.
I swear the same three white flatbed trucks with the same configuration of weaponry sitting in the back have driven around and fired for freshened up media clips almost every day for 10 days (no number plates - of course, same scuff marks).
In a country of 6.5 million, the best the democratic forces can muster is a couple of hundred blokes charging up and down the coastal road in trucks, even when the Gaddafi forces only have to blow their noses to invite another Tomahawk missile?
I swear the same three white flatbed trucks with the same configuration of weaponry sitting in the back have driven around and fired for freshened up media clips almost every day for 10 days (no number plates - of course, same scuff marks).
In a country of 6.5 million, the best the democratic forces can muster is a couple of hundred blokes charging up and down the coastal road in trucks, even when the Gaddafi forces only have to blow their noses to invite another Tomahawk missile?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I dont disagree about double-standards, or that there is much potential for horror. But given that the rebels have lost Ras Lanuf again, Im not sure when the Sirte reality will next be on full display.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
We obviously need a 'no-fly zone' (sic) over Sirte in order to protect the population from being "slaughtered".
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well for many weeks we questioned where all the 'defected army units' were, maybe didnt exist, maybe they were just biding their time, maybe camera-shy, but the last few weeks have demonstrated that they really dont seem to exist, further adding to the list of things from the first month that we can write off as complete bullshit.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
the first month?
The whole thing is bullshit.
The whole thing is bullshit.
Spion
I hear ya
In what way? I seem to remember you thought the events in Egypt were all bullshit too
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
You remember wrong. I questioned the reporting of "events".
Your ignorance is totally astounding.
Spion
I hear ya
Whatever. What do you mean by 'the whole thing is bullshit now'?
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Whatever.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I can't remember what London Calling's opinions were on the Egypt thread but if he was questioning the media coverage at least he has been consistent unlike others on here
Spion
I hear ya
Ern and Casually Red have been consistent too
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
consistently bonkers
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Yep, inconsistency is the way to credibility.
TruXta
tired
This x 1000.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The myth of tribal Libya
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/30/libya-tribal-myth-national-dignity
Portraying Libya as 'tribal' is not only wrong – it dismisses the notion that our uprising has anything to do with national dignity
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/30/libya-tribal-myth-national-dignity
Portraying Libya as 'tribal' is not only wrong – it dismisses the notion that our uprising has anything to do with national dignity
TruXta
tired
Reads as propaganda no less than those who argue the opposite. I've argued for a tribal component to this conflict based on the fact that the rebels are (or were at least) Senussi-led, but it remains to be seen how the structure of the insurrection will take shape in the weeks and months ahead.
And this bit towards the end "By labelling us as "tribal" you effectively dismiss the notion that our uprising has anything to do with freedom, democracy or human dignity".... really? I can see the post-orientalism angle he might be coming from, but at the same time tribal can be used merely as a sociological denominator.
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