Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
What happens if the rebels start attacking Gadaffi towns and villages and kill civilians? Especially if they are armed as Clinton hinted at?
Oh what a tangled web….
Oh what a tangled web….
Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement
- Thread starter ernestolynch
- Start date
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
No, I think that's right: in ordinary discourse in the west, 'tribal' and 'tribe' are loaded terms, words that carry a great deal of implicit baggage from the 19th century. In the popular imagination in the West, the concept of tribe is still associated with primitive atavism, and seen as part of societies that are not fully modern.
My guess would be that in fact in the Libyan context 'tribal' networks survive in the context of modernisation because they provide social networks through which individuals and groups can obtain leverage and recruit patrons/clients with which they can accomplish their goals - that's the tribal element not only to the revolt but also to pre-revolt life in Gadaffi's Libya.
I hadn't heard that the revolt was Senussi-led. That's very interesting if true. Evans-Pritchard wrote a piece c.1944 claiming that the Senussi had last no less than half their original population from the Italian conquest 1911 onwards, and lost them to the Italian colonial and fascist counter-insurgency campaigns. Sounds like they're tough people in other words.
E2A: Looking at that last paragraph, I'm guilty of the same crime as the peddlars of 'tribalism'! What I should have said is that the Senussi are by no means the homogeneous block that people might assume they are: some might be fervently anti-Gadaffi, others might be biding their time, etc. And their will be strong divisions within this 'tribal' group, as within other such groups.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Really depends on how long you have to prepare before the counter attack comes in.The problem with war in deserts is logistics unless someone turns up quickly with truck loads of stuff.You end up having to run away as the enemies stuff is nearer to them and you used all your stuff taking the town.And their coming back with lots of ammo etc.
With fresh troops and supplies 48hrs you could make it a problem for them to retake.Give it a week and you could turn it into something needing
a fallujah style effort to get back.
Spion
I hear ya
Defending anything, esp a built up area is easier to do than to attack it and take it (leaving aside matters like huge disparities in firepower, the demeanour of the population and suply lines)
That the rebels are supposedly taking these towns then losing them is rather odd. Once you've taken them you should be able to hold them, as long as you have supplies and the population is with you
</armchair general>
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Rebels in full rout now.
I would suggest that it is unlikely that France and Britain will stand back and watch them be totally defeated...
They have invested too much political capital in them
I would suggest that it is unlikely that France and Britain will stand back and watch them be totally defeated...
They have invested too much political capital in them
Lol
Pic of Gerry Ryan
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
You're weak old man.
The monarchist army will be crushed by the republicans now that the people are armed. Good.
Westbrit duffer.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Ugh I just hurt my brain by skimming over the first 300 posts of this thread again to remind myself what was being said in the early days. I hadnt realised quite how much of my time I spent bitching about the quality of information and padding my messages with caution . Im still not prepared to form a full conclusion about the will of the masses of LIbya, or the full list of ingredients and sponsors of the shit I've been smelling since the start.
It was always going to be hard to maintain the special feeling that events in Tunisia & Egypt caused, for the subsequent counter-revolutionary moves in Egypt were likely to return us to sour normality, but throw in brutally crushed protests elsewhere, and all that we've seen from Egypt and bleurgh, downer man. Hopefully some have managed to capture the moment in Egypt and keep at least a trace of that feeling safe inside, no matter what other horrors the world faces in 2011 and beyond.
It was always going to be hard to maintain the special feeling that events in Tunisia & Egypt caused, for the subsequent counter-revolutionary moves in Egypt were likely to return us to sour normality, but throw in brutally crushed protests elsewhere, and all that we've seen from Egypt and bleurgh, downer man. Hopefully some have managed to capture the moment in Egypt and keep at least a trace of that feeling safe inside, no matter what other horrors the world faces in 2011 and beyond.
I don't think the geni will go back into the bottle.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I just watched on BBC News the forward rebels taking fire from Gaddafi forces and retreating. One of them spoke english and to the BBC reporter he said no one is in charge, there are no commanders, they decide what to do amongst themselves. And what they had decided to do, was run!
I think this is a key problem, there are no military minds on the rebels side, consequently they have no strategy, even with their old weapons, without a plan they are just driving up to Gaddafi forces and when they come under fire they are fleeing.
I think this is a key problem, there are no military minds on the rebels side, consequently they have no strategy, even with their old weapons, without a plan they are just driving up to Gaddafi forces and when they come under fire they are fleeing.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
There's been rumours over the last couple of days that he has defected. Or maybe he's just coming here on sightseeing trip
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apparently it's been confirmed he's scarpered and has defected.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
I wonder if he knows where the bodies are buried? (metaphorically speaking)
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
apparently he did
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Obviously another CIA mole. Gaddafi is probably CIA himself. Intriguing.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Cannot remember if Mousa Kousa's prior reputation had been discussed here before now, but heres a 2009 article that makes interesting reading in places.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...elped-secure-release-of-Lockerbie-bomber.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...elped-secure-release-of-Lockerbie-bomber.html
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Obviously?
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Yes, just like Gaddafi. You should read more Chomsky.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
There's a difference between being armed by a country and being a contract agent. Read Chomsky, never seen him say this guy or Gaddif was a CIA agent.
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