Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[Divisive Cotton]

Gadaffi has just put out a press release saying Barack Obama is his son and he loves him

oh, and he is only fighting al-Qaeda in Libya

 

[chazegee]

The next South Park is going to be brilliant.

 

[elbows]

There are some stories yet to be told about recent weeks methinks.

1134: Libyan state TV says interior minister Abdel Fatah Yunes, who defected to the opposition at the beginning of the month, has returned to the government. He was shown embracing Colonel Gaddafi, and smiling. The TV footage of Mr Yunes appears to be fresh.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There are some stories yet to be told about recent weeks methinks.

...

1158: More on the interior minister who Libyan state TV claimed had returned to his post. The Libyan opposition leader denied that Abdel Fatah Yunes, who joined the rebellion earlier this month, had switched back. The chairman of the opposition National Transitional Council in Benghazi, Mustafa Abd-al-Jalil, told Al-Jazeera that Mr Yunis was ''in the operations room and is conducting operations now in Benghazi".

 

[London_Calling]

Trying to analysis these regimes is fairly pointless

It's termed a strategy.

You are of course quite right though, Clan Gaddafi are all quite mad; it’s impossible a survivor of 42 years who has somehow managed to retain the support the majority of the population notwithstanding the absence of democracy could outwit someone with the skill and 7-months experience of our brave Etonian leader. We are blessed to have a man with his diplomatic skills and international standing leading the UK’s marvellous humanitarian achievements.

Is this what they’re preaching on Urban’s fav 24-hour, BREAKING11!1, rolling news?

I'll let you get back it now in case you miss something very important.

 

[elbows]

So, Abdel Yunis. If the news is true and he has gone back to Gaddafi, then I really do wonder about some of the defections. I was concerned about them when they happened, its still too early to try and judge what has happened with this stuff, but hmmmmm.

Here are some things Yunis said when he was on the rebel side. Some of these transcripts were not well transcribed but given what may have happened Im going to post anyway:

General Brigade Staff- Abdul Fattah Yunis Ubeidi interview on ALARABIYA
the anchor asked him: Gaddafi mentioned u a lot in his speechwhat do u think u'll fate will be?
I am with the Libyan peoplepeople aged 14 and 15 were killed/shot straight in their chests
Anchor: Gaddafi said that u were hijacked by the youth in Benghazi
Yunis: gaddafi wants to cause a tribal warI know of thousands that are not employed
Anchor: but u r an interior minister, how come ur saying that now?
Yunis: the youth are frustrated.. people with high degrees cannot find jobsor employmentin Benghazi there were big protests, agents (dirty agents) opened fire on protestors
anchor: gaddafi said that rats are protesting, druges and infiltrators of the WEstern powers, what do u say about this talk?
Yunis: I was shoched, i worked with Gaddafi for more than 40 yearsI was shoched and astonished by what he said todayI wanted him to commomerate the martyrs unfortunately the talk was very disappointing
Anchor: why do u think these are his final days?
Yunis: we want the people's revolution to succeed and I want to be a part of this revolution. He's asking poeple to support the revolution and build a strong Lybia
Anchor: Gaddafi said he's going to cleanse the Lybian houses of these rats, what does he mean do u think?
Yunis: Cleanse who? these are young menI beg of him to stop this
Yunis: people are collecting arms and weapons
Yunis: people in Banghazi were not killed by the police and agents of the ministry
Yunis: I asked police units not to attack the civilians
Yunis: no civil war will take place in Lybia,I asked all police to go back to their work and follow on with their work
Anchor: can u tell us what areas under control of the poeple, what do u hear about Tripoli?
Yunis: police are not going to shoot people in Tripoli they have confirmed that to me
Anchor: u were Gaddafi's friend, u understand him very well, what do u understand from his talk today?
Yunis: (sarcastic) its clear that he is very nervous and is shaken, he is stubborn and I predict that he will not leavehe will either commit suicide or be killedI didn't want this end for him
Anchor: he said that his supporters did not come out yetYunis: his supporters are not at all comparable to the rest of the poeple
Anchor: u say that u predict that he will not leave, how is his end going to be?
Yunis: we know he's stubborn and will not leave. He may have left as they said,but I dont think so
Anchor: do u think he will act on his threats against the people?Yunis: who will follow his orders?
Yunis: mercenaries have money and they are African, from all African countriesthe mercenaries attacked arm stores and stole the arms
Anchor: what do u say to Gaddafi and to the people?Yunis: Gaddafi u r a religious man please end ur life in a decent way may be God will accept uThe Libyan people are great people the police upon my orders will not attack the people Libyans this is ur last chance to shape ur destiny and build ur country
Anchor: u speak as if this is the end of Gaddafi
Yunis: the police units believe it and are acting based on that I ask the people to stay in resistance

And here is an interview he gave concerning foreign support, no-fly-zone, etc:

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5101.htm

In recent weeks he has been described as 'a rebel commander'. I note that he was also a top advisor to Saif Gaddafi before all of this began.

 

[elbows]

If he hasnt switched back to Gaddafi then I wonder what measures the media took to determine that the footage was fresh.

Im not sure why I am even bothering to try to understand this at this time, sooo much bullshit from all sides.

 

[weltweit]

So, Al Jazeera English is saying the aircraft shot down over Benghazi was a rebel plane, shot down by the rebels. There is discipline and organisation for you! I guess the UN Alliance had better take note also, over Libya you will be shot at by both sides!!!

 

[London_Calling]

How many locals were killed by the US/UK no fly zone in Iraq - a little over 400 wasn't it? How many under this plane?

 

[quimcunx]

Reports that Mo from Alhurra tv has been critically injured.

 

[Anudder Oik]

You have to be careful with how the media plays all of this. Yesterday I noticed how when the news of The no-fly zone was ushered in it was pitched as "protection" for the "Pro democracy Protestors". This lightweight description plays down the strength of the rebel forces who are armed to the teeth, and is manipulative as it makes them seem incapable of defending themselves. George Orwell called this newspeak.

Whatsmore, in the last 24 hours there has been loads of scare mongering about possible civilian massacres so that everyone welcomes intervention unquestioningly from what is in effect, the west.

Todays news is that the rebels have repelled Gadaffis' attack on Bengazi on their own and captured 4 if his tanks. The city has a population of 1 million, is vast. I don't think Gaddafi's forces are up to the task of capturing it.

 

[Anudder Oik]

UN resolution 1973.

Can be used anywhere except in Gaza when the israelis bomb hospitals clearly marked with the words UN on the roof.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Reports that Mo from Alhurra tv has been critically injured.

Unfortunately I believe he has died

It looks like this mornings attack was repelled:

13:50 Al Manara reports that a group of Gaddafi forces are now trapped inside a Foreign company. They’re in the process of surrendering after their ammunition finished.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Poor Gadaffi

It's because he's misunderstood

 

[dylans]

You have to be careful with how the media plays all of this. Yesterday I noticed how when the news of The no-fly zone was ushered in it was pitched as "protection" for the "Pro democracy Protestors". This lightweight description plays down the strength of the rebel forces who are armed to the teeth, and is manipulative as it makes them seem incapable of defending themselves. George Orwell called this newspeak.

Whatsmore, in the last 24 hours there has been loads of scare mongering about possible civilian massacres so that everyone welcomes intervention unquestioningly from what is in effect, the west.

Todays news is that the rebels have repelled Gadaffis' attack on Bengazi on their own and captured 4 if his tanks. The city has a population of 1 million, is vast. I don't think Gaddafi's forces are up to the task of capturing it.

This

 

[dylans]

Can be used anywhere except in Gaza when the israelis bomb hospitals clearly marked with the words UN on the roof.

and this

 

[quimcunx]

Unfortunately I believe he has died

Yes. I delayed posting when I first saw the tweets. I was hoping it's some idiotic propaganda or a mistake.

For anyone who hasn't been watching this thread Mohamed Nabous set up tv channel Libya Alhurra from Benghazi. He first came onto our internets at the start of the uprising and then set up this little independent broadcasting unit from where he and others reported. His reports were in English. From what he told us he was just a techy bloke who wanted to get word out to the world. He became the face of Free Libyans for many. His wife confirmed on Alhurra that he has died.

In his first broadcast he said in his plea, ''I am not afraid to die, I am afraid to lose the battle'.


RIP Mo

 

[twistedAM]

So, Al Jazeera English is saying the aircraft shot down over Benghazi was a rebel plane, shot down by the rebels. There is discipline and organisation for you! I guess the UN Alliance had better take note also, over Libya you will be shot at by both sides!!!

Some reports say it was a rebel plane that ran out of fuel and the pilot ejected. Yet those oil-gobbling cunts in Paris are saying the Libyan government* have not only broken the ceasefire but escalated it. Who knows?

*I use the term government rather than regime as favoured by Sky News reporters. It's as legitimate a government as the rest of the assholes the west has propped up for decades in that region.

 

[Lock&Light]

*I use the term government rather than regime as favoured by Sky News reporters. It's as legitimate a government as the rest of the assholes the west has propped up for decades in that region.

I think, as do the governments represented in Paris, (which include a number of Arab leaders) that Gaddafi's 'government' lost that appelation when it started firing on un-armed protesters.

 

[weltweit]

Some reports say it was a rebel plane that ran out of fuel and the pilot ejected.
...

I just watched footage of the plane, there was an explosion and then smoke and fire and it went down, it did not run out of fuel, I am pretty certain someone shot it down.

 

[weltweit]

...
*I use the term government rather than regime as favoured by Sky News reporters. It's as legitimate a government as the rest of the assholes the west has propped up for decades in that region.

Because the west supports bad regimes in some places, does not mean that it cannot do the right thing in this case.

 

[elbows]

I just watched footage of the plane, there was an explosion and then smoke and fire and it went down, it did not run out of fuel, I am pretty certain someone shot it down.

The rebels already admitted to shooting it down by mistake.

 

[elbows]

For anyone who hasn't been watching this thread Mohamed Nabous set up tv channel Libya Alhurra from Benghazi. He first came onto our internets at the start of the uprising and then set up this little independent broadcasting unit from where he and others reported. His reports were in English. From what he told us he was just a techy bloke who wanted to get word out to the world. He became the face of Free Libyans for many. His wife confirmed on Alhurra that he has died.

In his first broadcast he said in his plea, ''I am not afraid to die, I am afraid to lose the battle'.


RIP Mo

According to at least one report he was killed by gunfire. I dont know any more about the circumstances, but I know he was doing reports from the streets after trouble started in Benghazi in the night. I was just watching one earlier, not realising that he had since died.

I'm still keeping an open mind about what exactly has happened over recent weeks, the nature of the opposition, and I was a tad cynical about the tv station when it first appeared, and am taking all news with a pinch of salt. But even so I'll still say RIP Mo.

 

[dylans]

Because the west supports bad regimes in some places, does not mean that it cannot do the right thing in this case.

That's beyond naive. It really is. Just because the serial killer killed a dozen people in one place, it doesn't mean he can't be trusted to take care of your kids in this case. Yes it does

 

[quimcunx]

According to at least one report he was killed by gunfire. I dont know any more about the circumstances, but I know he was doing reports from the streets after trouble started in Benghazi in the night. I was just watching one earlier, not realising that he had since died.

I'm still keeping an open mind about what exactly has happened over recent weeks, the nature of the opposition, and I was a tad cynical about the tv station when it first appeared, and am taking all news with a pinch of salt. But even so I'll still say RIP Mo.

I'm simultaneously hoping he's not dead and that it's not some perverse story we're being sold.

Everything comes with a pinch of salt.

 

[elbows]

I'm simultaneously hoping he's not dead and that it's not some perverse story we're being sold.

Everything comes with a pinch of salt.

As Inspector Clouseau said, I suspect everyone and I suspect no one.

 

[quimcunx]

Human Shields a-go-go down Tripoli way by the sounds of things. And other locations.


Re some of the more controversial posts on this thread, I can't pretend to know the minds of the many players in this situation or even who they all are. I can only speculate, same as everyone else. As far as I'm concerned I'm supporting the Joe Bloggs who have had enough of living under the Gaddafi regime. I've no time for anyone who uses any grasping aspirations of the west or tribal leaders or military leaders or religious leaders to dismiss the aspirations of ordinary men and women who have stood up to this brutal regime, or who use these aspirations to defend Gaddafi.

 

[weltweit]

That's beyond naive. It really is. Just because the serial killer killed a dozen people in one place, it doesn't mean he can't be trusted to take care of your kids in this case. Yes it does

The serial killer, if he is anyone, is Gaddafi!

 

[weltweit]

Well apparently there are French planes over Libya, either reconnisance or warplanes or both, I hope someone tells the rebels on the streets of Benghazi to - stop shooting at the planes - now!

 

[quimcunx]

Hillary Clinton on AJE now talking about Iran then Bahrain.