Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[weltweit]

It bothers me that the UN allies seem to have different ideas of what the resolution means.

David Cameron has talked of regime change, insisting that Britain would be threatened if Col Muammar Gaddafi remained in power and going on to say that "it was "almost impossible to envisage a future (in Libya) that includes him (Gaddafi)". It is not clear how air power would bring about regime change in Libya.

Barak Obama on the other hand is talking much more about a ceasefire and the protection of civilians, which would leave getting rid of Gaddafi to the rebels, a task that they so far have proven unable to undertake. Obama's spokesperson has said : to protect the Libyan people from further abuses. Not to overthrow Gaddafi. To protect the people.

 

[ernestolynch]

Beanicide on this thread, Sarkozy's useful idiots. Well done to the fellow nicknamed casual red for doing the beans in.

 

[sleaterkinney]

About oil.

Libya accounts for just 2% of world oil output.

Italy, France and Spain are the main European importers of Libyan oil, they account for 85% of libyan oil exports.

Oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa and the ninth largest in the world

 

[elbows]

And 2% sounds small but its enough to matter right now as spare global oil production capacity buffer is not exactly in the best of health compared to many moments in the past. And the percentage of Italian oil imports that come from Libya is quite significant.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There's now a sustained attack on Benghazi.

Western journalists have seen a fighter jet shot down

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There is shelling of central Benghazi

 

[ernestolynch]

Boner rating out of 10?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There is shelling of central Benghazi

No doubt casually red would call this "a campaign of deliberate misinformation on a global scale"

 

[ernestolynch]

Dupe.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Yes you are right and I have now seen the light

The cease fire is holding up. Gaddafi is not not using aircraft to attack Benghazi. There is no shelling on the center of the city. Troops have not entered the city from the sea and land. This is not happening. At all.

 

[ernestolynch]

Send in the RAF to defend the anarchists!

 

[ernestolynch]

It's Spain 1936 all over again!

 

[gentlegreen]

It's a bloody big place - 2.6 times the size of France.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Plane shot down this morning:

 

[ernestolynch]

Luke and Tom (for it is them) have reported to their local TA barracks.

 

[Pingu]

I am a bit uncomfortable with this one tbh.

It stinks of western nations looking to instigate a regime change via proxy. Now i am not saying that gadaffi is a nice bloke who pets kittehs and saves puppies from trees but the action we are about to enter into IS us (western nations) taking sides and pretty much providing military assistance to one side in a conflict. If we are going to behave like this we should do it openly and not in this backhanded manner.

the question i have i guess is will coallition forces also attack rebel forces who endanger civillians and civillian targets? OK so they dont have planes so the no fly thing is not relevant but they do have the capability to shell towns etc

 

[ernestolynch]

Presumably the Libyan public sector will be up for grabs once the West get their man in.

 

[ernestolynch]

Al Jaz can't confirm whether the downed jet was a government one or a monarchist one.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

AJELive: Mustafa Abdul Jalil, the head of the Libyan Interim Council, tells AlJazeera that plane shot down belongs to anti-Gaddafi rebels

 

[Pingu]

so me saying the rebel side have no planes is bollocks then...


doesnt change the point i am making though

 

[ernestolynch]

Luke and Tom said the rebels only had slingshots and fire in their bellies.

 

[Pingu]

Luke and Tom said the rebels only had slingshots and fire in their bellies.

no bows and arrows? how primative. i bet they have never had a mcdonalds milk shake either

 

[Divisive Cotton]

so me saying the rebel side have no planes is bollocks then...

They do have an airforce - they used them a couple of days. A few ancient migs apparently

 

[ernestolynch]

Lol

 

[Divisive Cotton]

haven't you got any school work to mark today ern?

 

[ernestolynch]

Oddball.

 

[Pingu]

what i am wondering is wil the no fly policy be strictly enforced wrt to rebels too?

i guess what i am trying to say is:

if we want to support the rebels and help them overthrow the urrent government and leadership theen we should just fucking do it and not drag it out for years by using others to do it in "our" name. not saying we should do this btw but it looks like this is what we are doing.. but in a much more underhand manner

 

[ernestolynch]

'we'?

 

[London_Calling]

I get stuck on the declaration by the Clan Gaddafi as thier 'forces' approached Benghazi (“no mercy”, etc). Why would a shrewd survivor attuned to his people and the international community effectively incite the UN to R1973 . . . given the speed at which he then declared a cease fire, you could almost think the Gaddafi's engineered that develpment.

Why would they do that . . they have no army, just a better rag-tag militia than the rebels,they've had to garrison (at least to some extent) every town from Tripoli to Benghazi, do they have the forces left to actually occupy (not just 'take') a town of 1 million plus that's fervently against them . .

To avoid being revealed as militarily weak, better surely to let the international community force you to stop - to be seen to comply, that your people see the imperialists/colonialists return . . .

Hmmm . . . why would they incite like that . . .

 

[Divisive Cotton]

To avoid being revealed as militarily weak, better surely to let the international community force you to stop - to be seen to comply, that your people see the imperialists/colonialists return . . .

Trying to analysis these regimes is fairly pointless

I've lost count of the number of times people in the mainstream media have tried to interpret the actions and words of the Tripoli regime but they amount to little more than guesses.

Earlier on in this thread Idaho pointed out the irrationality that can often be found in these types of governments

A classic example of that was when Saddam Hussain decided he was going to personally take charge of the Iraqi defences when the US invaded in 2003 and it was total disaster.